hypex ncore - Page 703 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Commercial Sector > Vendor Forums > Vendor's Bazaar

Vendor's Bazaar Commercial Vendors large & small hawking their wares

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 27th July 2013, 06:47 PM   #7021
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esperado View Post
I don't understand this.
"Normal" non linearity (such as harmonic distortion) is one thing - where you can have less ad less, but never reach zero. Things like TIM that only happen if a certain condition is met is different - just like oscillation. There are analog amplifiers that oscillate in some conditions, and other that don't oscillate at all. As in *zero*. Not 0.0001 or anything, but not at all. Same with slew rate distortions. As long as the correct boundary conditions are observed, they don't happen - at all.
__________________
"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th July 2013, 07:03 PM   #7022
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: At the output stage
Send a message via Yahoo to mr_push_pull
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esperado View Post
About analog power amps, my religion is to...
if I recall correctly, it's you who said that audio is not a question of belief.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Esperado View Post
Yes, we need overkill margins on everything (current, bandwidths etc) to get a decent reproduction system. Then how many records with good enough recordings and mixs ?
do we?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esperado View Post
And we can suffer more from the (theoretical) 0.01 % distortion of a power amp, than from the 4% of distortion of our loudspeaker.
I feel I need to remind everyone that the published measurements of the NCORE display a 0.0003% THD @20kHz, @20W power, not 0.01%. that is 3 ppm (parts per million). whereas some "high end" amps are nearing 1% @20kHz. at which point we need to remember what THD is. Total Harmonic Distortion is the ratio of the RMS voltage of all harmonics divided by the RMS voltage of the fundamental. one can easily infer from that the amplitude of the error waveform. the Hypex datasheets show the distortion spectrum and the fact that THD is pretty much invariant with frequency suggests one other important thing: that the spectrum does not vary much over it, meaning the distortion is of simple nature.
so, we have a few parts per million of error waveform with a full-scale 20kHz sine, the fastest slewing signal present at the input (which is a few times faster, if not orders of magnitude, compared to the slew rate of a kick-drum attack).
and... how come (cough cough) many "fast" amps display rising distortion with frequency, whereas others don't? what does that SR do, exactly? how does it help?

time to rephrase the issue: where is that TIM distortion?

maybe it's time to answer with facts (your measurements or that AES article would be a start) instead of cherry-picking and straw men.
__________________
we all love a good ol' stereotype until it's against us

Last edited by mr_push_pull; 27th July 2013 at 07:13 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th July 2013, 07:19 PM   #7023
ro9397 is offline ro9397  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: No. Utah
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajst2duk View Post
I had a chance to listen to my Ncore's driving a set of Maggie MMG's this week. I was stunned at the sound - awesome and what a formidable component pair at the price.
I've not heard such partnering but would love to, and imagine it's a great match, really wake up those planar panels!
__________________
James
"Television is the poor man's whiskey." Russel Baker
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th July 2013, 07:28 PM   #7024
ro9397 is offline ro9397  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: No. Utah
Sorry for off topic, but thread posters here appear capable to reply: Is SMPS600 plug'n play for Australia's 240VAC/50 Hz? (fifty Hz, not sixty Hz)
__________________
James
"Television is the poor man's whiskey." Russel Baker
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th July 2013, 07:32 PM   #7025
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Quote:
Originally Posted by ro9397 View Post
Sorry for off topic, but thread posters here appear capable to reply: Is SMPS600 plug'n play for Australia's 240VAC/50 Hz? (fifty Hz, not sixty Hz)
Considering Europe is 230V/50 Hz, the answer is "yes".
__________________
"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th July 2013, 08:18 PM   #7026
diyAudio Member
 
Esperado's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: France
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julf View Post
There are analog amplifiers that oscillate in some conditions, and other that don't oscillate at all. As in *zero*. Not 0.0001 or anything, but not at all. Same with slew rate distortions. As long as the correct boundary conditions are observed, they don't happen - at all.
Hum...
As long as you design a closed loop amplifier, you design an oscillator. 'More or less' damped. A stable amp, according to Nyquist, is an oscillator with not enough Q at its resonance frequency while an unstable amplifier (according to Murphy) has too much :-)
Same thing with this kind of distortion due to the delay between error and its correction, in presence of fast transition, that some call TIM. It is an inter-modulation distortion that will never be 0.
__________________
Ultimate Protection and more.The Only Source of Knowledge is experience, everything else is just information” ©A. Einstein
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th July 2013, 08:20 PM   #7027
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esperado View Post
Same thing with this kind of distortion due to the delay between error and its correction, in presence of fast transition, that some call TIM. It is an inter-modulation distortion that will never be 0.
I disagree. As long as the feedback loop of the amp can handle the fastest input signal, there won't be *any* slew rate related distortion (of which TIM is a small special case).
__________________
"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
  Reply With Quote
Old 28th July 2013, 12:34 AM   #7028
fas42 is offline fas42  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
fas42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NSW, Australia
Blog Entries: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esperado View Post
Yes, we need overkill margins on everything (current, bandwidths etc) to get a decent reproduction system. Then how many records with good enough recordings and mixs ?
From personal experience, this is not necessary - eliminating all the weaknesses that inject disturbing low level distortion, and making sure that the power amp can cleanly amplify to the transient peak SPLs is all that's required.

If the system is sufficently capable in this sense, then all recordings acquit themselves very nicely indeed, subjectively conveying the same impact as the "real thing" would ...
__________________
Frank · · · the truth is, I just like a bit of ASMR ...
  Reply With Quote
Old 28th July 2013, 08:02 AM   #7029
diyAudio Member
 
Esperado's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: France
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julf View Post
I disagree. As long as the feedback loop of the amp can handle the fastest input signal, there won't be *any* slew rate related distortion.
Julf, please, think twice about servos.
As long as your closed loop amplifier will have a transmission delay (and they all have) and the overall gain is a function of the feedback, you will have distortion.

Attached, bandwidth curves of the same amplifier took inside the loop (input of the second stage). First image in a voltage feedback configuration (222V/µs, 1Mhz) second in current feedback (1200V/µs, 5Mhz).
As you can see, we are far to be flat in the audio bandwitch, even in the second case.

Click the image to open in full size.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_push_pull View Post
if I recall correctly, it's you who said that audio is not a question of belief.
My religion is just the product of studies and experiences.
__________________
Ultimate Protection and more.The Only Source of Knowledge is experience, everything else is just information” ©A. Einstein

Last edited by Esperado; 28th July 2013 at 08:31 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 28th July 2013, 08:11 AM   #7030
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esperado View Post
As long as your closed loop amplifier will have a transmission delay (and they all have have) and the overall gain is a function of the feedback, you will have distortion.
Bruno Putzeys: The F-word - or, why there is no such thing as too much feedback
__________________
"To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hypex problem, who can help Hansms Class D 9 18th August 2013 06:49 AM
Hypex steveww Class D 14 18th November 2010 01:44 PM
Question for those who have tried hypex smps with hypex modules avian Class D 12 3rd March 2009 09:30 AM
Hypex UcD 180AD + signal wires, Power Supply ST, Hypex Transformer TR100A c10h12n2 Swap Meet 7 7th July 2007 03:55 PM
FS: Hypex UcD 400/180AD, hypex toroid Archmage Swap Meet 4 14th November 2006 04:23 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 08:31 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2