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Old 8th July 2013, 04:25 AM   #6971
ro9397 is offline ro9397  United States
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Yes, I agree with your view of "universal." "Every rule has exceptions", as my friend used to say, "including this one!"

I could be wrong about Mike's test results; if so my sincere apology.

With SS amps, the distortion magnitude and presumed subjective audibility of distortion spectra both increase as load impedance falls, so says IIRC every Bascom King test in Audio Magazine and also John Atkinson tests in Stereophile. I've heard qualitative differences (unrelated to peak SPL) on at least two SS amps, at moderate SPL, comparing identical loads except for impedance, 2.7 vs. 5.3 vs. 10.6 Ohm.

With the two amps described above, into the higher impedance the sound was more relaxed, more dynamic, more musical, more transparent, and more enticing vs. the lower impedance. It's possible, with some SS amps, to yield little difference in peak SPL into 2.7 Ohms (runs out of current) vs. 10.6 Ohm (runs out of voltage).

Again, NC400 mono apparently passes so much current that it improved into the lower load impedance, provided the speaker cable resistance was low enough (results inverted with too high speaker cable resistance).
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Last edited by ro9397; 8th July 2013 at 04:29 AM.
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Old 8th July 2013, 07:16 AM   #6972
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ro9397 View Post
With SS amps, the distortion magnitude and presumed subjective audibility of distortion spectra both increase as load impedance falls
And why would that be?

Yes, there are reasons for why that might (often) be the case with traditional linear amplifiers, but class D the distortion characteristics are pretty much defined by the feedback circuitry, and there is nothing that I see in the ncore design that would be sensitive to current / load resistance (and that would cause any sort of change in distortion spectra).

Quote:
so says IIRC every Bascom King test in Audio Magazine and also John Atkinson tests in Stereophile.
Measurements or subjective impressions? On class D amps?
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Old 8th July 2013, 03:42 PM   #6973
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Default Speaker Cable Gauge

Julf: you are generally a technically oriented guy, I am curious as to your use of such enormously over sized speaker cabling. Typical speaker cable gauge is anywhere from 18 AWG to 8 AWG running to a full range speaker. It appears that you believe that there could be advantages to much bigger cabling, considering that 5 AWG would be twice as big as 8 AWG.
My understanding is that the current required to drive most speakers does not dictate such high gauges, would you care to elaborate further on your choice of unusually high gauge cabling with your set up? I do not think you are using long runs either, right?
The idea that the Nc400s can deliver super high currents (compared to other well designed A and A/B amps) does seem to be supported by their specification, current ability seems about standard compared to other amps of similar power:
Is it your belief that most speaker cabling (18 AWG-8 AWG) sold is inadequate to the task?
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Old 8th July 2013, 04:25 PM   #6974
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrows View Post
Julf: you are generally a technically oriented guy, I am curious as to your use of such enormously over sized speaker cabling. Typical speaker cable gauge is anywhere from 18 AWG to 8 AWG running to a full range speaker. It appears that you believe that there could be advantages to much bigger cabling, considering that 5 AWG would be twice as big as 8 AWG.
My understanding is that the current required to drive most speakers does not dictate such high gauges, would you care to elaborate further on your choice of unusually high gauge cabling with your set up?
This is hi-fi, where "let's go beyond any technically reasonable specs" seems to be the norm, after all, based on the good old motto "if it is worth doing, it is worth overdoing"

Quote:
Is it your belief that most speaker cabling (18 AWG-8 AWG) sold is inadequate to the task?
No. Most standard speaker cable is well up to the job (as long as it isn't some silly audiophile litz wire or something). It's just that with these specific speakers, I am obsessed with damping factor, and with the nicely low output impedance of the nCores, I wanted to minimize the additional cable resistance.

It also tends to impress visitors
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Old 8th July 2013, 04:42 PM   #6975
3lviz is offline 3lviz  Finland
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Actually, i wanted to try the effects of low inductance with nCore and bought a used pair of Goertz Boa MI-3. AWG-7 solid copper, twisted inside a plastic. At least for now, it feels like the bass is now punchier and the sound stage is more open. I used to have ViaBlue SC-2 (awg 12, copper/silver hybrid), which has much higher inductance (10 fold, if not 100 fold).

Some amps have big problems with the Goertz MI cable capacitance (overheating quickly until the "smoke that makes things work" escapes), but nCore is not one of them, since it can take 200nF of cable, as john mentioned somewhere around page 29. Edit: page 28 - hypex ncore

There is other ways to achieve low inductance, but wanted also try a solid copper cabling, just for trying something different. Actually I didn't even expect a change and i was positively surprised when i heard it.

Last edited by 3lviz; 8th July 2013 at 05:10 PM.
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Old 8th July 2013, 06:41 PM   #6976
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3lviz View Post
There is other ways to achieve low inductance, but wanted also try a solid copper cabling, just for trying something different
Considering my amps live directly beneath the speakers, I might at some point try 10 x 20 mm solid copper bars...
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Old 9th July 2013, 08:03 PM   #6977
3lviz is offline 3lviz  Finland
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Could be a bit overkill since you got the amps near speakers, but it wouldn't hurt anyone if you tried of course .
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Old 11th July 2013, 12:30 AM   #6978
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3lviz View Post
Could be a bit overkill since you got the amps near speakers, but it wouldn't hurt anyone if you tried of course .
Overkill in audio hobby is default behaviour
Some highly polished pure copper bars would add some real bling even if the sonic benefit is arguable.
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Old 11th July 2013, 12:02 PM   #6979
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I've finally got some ncores and wanted to double check the wiring of a single ended input.

For now I only have use of single ended cables (in the wall, running to each speaker). So I'm going to remove the RCA plug from the end and replace it with an XLR.

I've looked over the datasheets many times but there isn't a diagram for this. Summarising figure 3 and figure 4, I'm thinking...

Externally

Centre core of coax to pin 2 (hot) of the XLR.

Shield of coax to pin 1 & 3 (cold & ground) of the XLR.

Internally

Exactly as figure 3 - the normal way of using a balanced input. Pin 1 to chassis, shield of internal balanced cable to chassis at socket end and pin 4 (passive, ground) of the ncore.

And double insulated - no mains earth connected.

Could anyone comment if I've got this right? Thanks.
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Old 11th July 2013, 12:12 PM   #6980
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by judderod View Post
Could anyone comment if I've got this right?
Sounds right to me!
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