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Old 10th May 2013, 08:39 PM   #6751
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miero View Post
How could I when I do not have it (yet)?
OK, so on what are you basing your assumption that there will be noise?

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I'm aware that you have been measuring it a little, although I've not seen any picture that would convince me that there is "nothing there". Can you post pic of sine on a scope with at the lowest measurable level? I do not suppose there will be "nothing".
Nothing that I could see on the scope.

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In this thread are many "pros" arguments for nCore, but almost none "cons". But you can try to write some to convince me to try it ;-)
Well, I guess there have been enough arguments for why you should try it - I would love to see some objective, substantiated arguments for why not
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Old 10th May 2013, 09:15 PM   #6752
miero is offline miero  Czech Republic
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Originally Posted by Julf View Post
OK, so on what are you basing your assumption that there will be noise?
All measurements in the NC400 datasheet are valid for "MBW=20kHz", so I expect a surprise beyond 20kHz boundary.

Also frequency response is +0/-0.5dB for (20-20000Hz & small signal only graph) that is a bit worse than response achievable by classic amplifier ... e.g. +0/-0.1dB for (20-20000Hz).

Last edited by miero; 10th May 2013 at 09:18 PM.
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Old 10th May 2013, 09:48 PM   #6753
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Originally Posted by miero View Post
All measurements in the NC400 datasheet are valid for "MBW=20kHz", so I expect a surprise beyond 20kHz boundary.

Also frequency response is +0/-0.5dB for (20-20000Hz & small signal only graph) that is a bit worse than response achievable by classic amplifier ... e.g. +0/-0.1dB for (20-20000Hz).
first, a bit of background. if you look up my post you can see that I've given up my UCD in favor of a relatively cheap and almost vintage linear amp. so I don't exactly qualify as a fanboy.

but, for the sake of objectivity.
I have absolutely no reason to suspect that Hypex don't know their stuff when it comes to EMI/RFI. and, again, please believe me: many manufacturers don't apply. I can go into detail if you want me to.

this thread has already been over this. post-20kHz measurements are a red herring: people could think that "there lie monsters". I believe that measurements do tell everything but comprehensive ones are difficult to make and few people are able to interpret them correctly. take square wave response for instance, most people think for some reason that they correlate with good sound. and it's my (limited) experience that they don't. it's a long discussion and I'm not willing to embark in it in this thread at this time.
look up the Stereophile measurements for the Channel Islands UCD180-based amp. the 400kHz carrier is visible. nothing is hidden there.
would you expect the NCORE to be worse in that respect?

and note that (as I did not hear the NCORE) I can't comment on the sound. but if EMI/RFI is your only worry...
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Old 11th May 2013, 06:06 AM   #6754
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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Originally Posted by miero View Post
All measurements in the NC400 datasheet are valid for "MBW=20kHz", so I expect a surprise beyond 20kHz boundary.
A not entirely unreasonable concern. All I can say is that when I checked with a scope (mainly to ensure the amps weren't oscillating), I didn't see anything worrying.

Quote:
Also frequency response is +0/-0.5dB for (20-20000Hz & small signal only graph) that is a bit worse than response achievable by classic amplifier ... e.g. +0/-0.1dB for (20-20000Hz).
This is another matter - if you look at the frequency response plot, you see that the -0.5dB is clearly at 20 kHz, and caused by the deliberate HF cut-off - it's not like the frequency response is uneven, as it is bullet straight up to that point. I would not call it "worse" than a classic amp with no HF limiting.
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Old 11th May 2013, 08:05 AM   #6755
mangew is offline mangew  Sweden
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Originally Posted by Julf View Post
Which A-class monoblocks did you have?
I had Xindak 8800MNE

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Originally Posted by mr_push_pull View Post
can you be a bit more precise, please? thanks.
Both me and my wife thought it was more muddy, less detail and "flat sound".
The singer did not come forward as it was earlier.

Again, not bad and i doesnīt know how much "burn in " time they need to perform as itīs best. I only run them for about 15 hours now. I will run them and do a real evaluate when they run for a few hundred hours.

Could be as easy as Class D is not "my cup of tea"
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Old 11th May 2013, 08:57 AM   #6756
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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Originally Posted by mangew View Post
I had Xindak 8800MNE
I have not come across that one before, but it seems like a pretty traditional "bunch of parallel power transistor pairs" design. The manufacturer claims it is a Class A amp, but elsewhere I see it described as "200 Watt Mono Blocks - Class A First 50 Watts", so that would make it a class A/B with a high cross-over point.

Interestingly, the manufacturers don't specify any useful information, but instead provide some rather meaningless information such as "50A bridge rectifier". I love the phrase " In order to avoid the noisy when power-off, this circuit adds transient release circuit, power-on delay circuit and glittering indicating circuit for protection to make this unit more intellective".

They do describe the sound as "Warm and thick sound with full taste of music" - pretty much the opposite of how I would describe a transparent amp such as the nC400.

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Both me and my wife thought it was more muddy, less detail and "flat sound". The singer did not come forward as it was earlier.
It does sound like the Xindak has a very different tonal character than the hypex, and it also sounds like the two of you prefer the character of the Xindak. It all comes down to individual preferences in the end.

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Again, not bad and i doesnīt know how much "burn in " time they need to perform as itīs best. I only run them for about 15 hours now. I will run them and do a real evaluate when they run for a few hundred hours.
I don't think there will be any audible change.

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Could be as easy as Class D is not "my cup of tea"
Could be - and nothing wrong with that.
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Old 11th May 2013, 10:00 AM   #6757
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mangew View Post
I had Xindak 8800MNE



Both me and my wife thought it was more muddy, less detail and "flat sound".
The singer did not come forward as it was earlier.

Again, not bad and i doesnīt know how much "burn in " time they need to perform as itīs best. I only run them for about 15 hours now. I will run them and do a real evaluate when they run for a few hundred hours.

Could be as easy as Class D is not "my cup of tea"
Could also be a "compatibility" issue. If your current system has been put together around the Xindak, then exchanging the Xindak for the ncore with its very different o/p impedance and all together different character would probably call for other system changes in order to produce the kind of presentation that you prefer.

System balance everything.

best,
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Old 11th May 2013, 10:04 AM   #6758
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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Originally Posted by Juhleren View Post
exchanging the Xindak for the ncore with its very different o/p impedance and all together different character would probably call for other system changes in order to produce the kind of presentation that you prefer.
While the Xindak probably doesn't have the extremely low output impedance of the nCore, it is probably still low enough that I find it hard to believe it would make a significant difference with "normal" speakers.
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Old 11th May 2013, 10:27 AM   #6759
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Sure

Last edited by Juhleren; 11th May 2013 at 10:34 AM.
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Old 11th May 2013, 11:47 AM   #6760
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_push_pull View Post
look up the Stereophile measurements for the Channel Islands UCD180-based amp. the 400kHz carrier is visible. nothing is hidden there.
would you expect the NCORE to be worse in that respect?


From the review: " with no signal present it is actually a pure tone at 412kHz that has an amplitude of 263mV. "

Once i had the same question and someone actually measured the Ncore and came up with a similar, if slightly higher number. Whether one is bothered by half a megahertz feeding a 5m speaker cable is probably system specific.
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