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Old 25th March 2013, 04:12 PM   #6641
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By habit, when you increase the slew-rate (and reduce HF distortion) of a power amp, the first thing you notice is sharper basses. Then you discover little details in instruments that you never heard before. Like nails or mediators on the guitar strings, noise of pedal and feeling of the hammers on pianos, hits of the strings on drums, metal and weight on cymbals, more space between instruments, better separation...
The only thing you don't notice is an increase of trebles. On the contrary, you have a feeling of less level, while they are more 'fluid' or easy. Less 'noticeable'.
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Old 25th March 2013, 04:21 PM   #6642
tony399 is offline tony399  United Kingdom
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Mr push pull,
I wouldn't say ncore is simply more of what ucd does, the only way you will find out is to hear it for yourself.
I liked what ucd did but I couldn't go back now.
Will it be better than your amplifier in your opinion? I don't know..
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Old 27th March 2013, 12:09 AM   #6643
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_push_pull View Post
if I were to sum up the differences:
- (much) more real (lower) bass, (much) more highs
- much better transients
- cellos, violins etc turned from plastic to wood
- microdynamics: relatively small differences in loudness much more identifiable
- more *real* details, instruments emerging which I've never been aware of
- overall sensation of enjoyment, I listen more albums from start to finish because I like the sound AND the music more
Sounds a bit like the concentric vs concave tendency of high motor strength speaker drivers with over hung motor structures compared to under hung motor systems in speaker drivers...

Congested and aggressive vs open and refined sound.

When I bodged around with both UCD and aussie amp implementations I found the speaker return routing critical. Routing back to the boards opposed to directly to the PS ground resulted in "controlled", somewhat congested and closed sound while directly to PS ground gave extension and "life" if somehow also a bit unruly sound in some cases.

However I eventually preferring UCD with speaker return to the boards when everything settled down in a system with some very small bookshelf speakers. The aussie never really worked and was directly terrible with speaker return to the boards... Was told it shouldn't matter, but boy it made a difference!
I guess high feedback amps are quite sensitive to how the return current is routed. The distance between the feedback reference point and the current routing is probably the thing...

From what you describe, if you haven't tried both returning speaker to PS and directly to the UCD boards, you might like to try out both options and hear whether it affects what you dislike about the UCD amp ....

Cheers,

Last edited by Juhleren; 27th March 2013 at 12:11 AM.
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Old 27th March 2013, 01:15 AM   #6644
fas42 is online now fas42  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esperado View Post
By habit, when you increase the slew-rate (and reduce HF distortion) of a power amp, the first thing you notice is sharper basses. Then you discover little details in instruments that you never heard before. Like nails or mediators on the guitar strings, noise of pedal and feeling of the hammers on pianos, hits of the strings on drums, metal and weight on cymbals, more space between instruments, better separation...
The only thing you don't notice is an increase of trebles. On the contrary, you have a feeling of less level, while they are more 'fluid' or easy. Less 'noticeable'.
+1, ...

Frank
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Old 27th March 2013, 05:01 AM   #6645
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juhleren View Post
Sounds a bit like the concentric vs concave tendency of high motor strength speaker drivers with over hung motor structures compared to under hung motor systems in speaker drivers...

Congested and aggressive vs open and refined sound.

When I bodged around with both UCD and aussie amp implementations I found the speaker return routing critical. Routing back to the boards opposed to directly to the PS ground resulted in "controlled", somewhat congested and closed sound while directly to PS ground gave extension and "life" if somehow also a bit unruly sound in some cases.

However I eventually preferring UCD with speaker return to the boards when everything settled down in a system with some very small bookshelf speakers. The aussie never really worked and was directly terrible with speaker return to the boards... Was told it shouldn't matter, but boy it made a difference!
I guess high feedback amps are quite sensitive to how the return current is routed. The distance between the feedback reference point and the current routing is probably the thing...

From what you describe, if you haven't tried both returning speaker to PS and directly to the UCD boards, you might like to try out both options and hear whether it affects what you dislike about the UCD amp ....

Cheers,
It is possible to choose PS ground 1 or 2 cm from board ground. I always choose that the last 5 years.
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Old 27th March 2013, 09:06 AM   #6646
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erlend Sæterdal View Post
It is possible to choose PS ground 1 or 2 cm from board ground. I always choose that the last 5 years.
That might work with the UcD, but seems like a bad idea with the nCore.
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Old 27th March 2013, 09:32 AM   #6647
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erlend Sæterdal View Post
It is possible to choose PS ground 1 or 2 cm from board ground. I always choose that the last 5 years.
Haven't tried it due to my linear PS typically demands some 10cm or so.
I am inclined to believe that even a few cm's can be enough to screw with the operation of the nfb loop -especially since you remove it from the ground plane and thereby form a path that has to go through ground plane and through the wire to the PS ground. I believe this to be the reason for why Bruno placed both speaker terminals on the ncore boards and as close as possible...

I also tried to route speaker return back to both PS ground and the UCD boards in order to ensure low R and maintain voltage reference on the boards, but this sounded sort of "in between" the other options and clearly less refined than routing the current through the boards.

If you built ncore without routing speaker return back to the boards terminal I am quite sure that they wont perform as intended -and in a quite audible manner too.

With the aussie modules I couldn't stand the sound when routing speaker return back through the boards, so i might change like the UCDs when run in, but that "sound" made me too impatient. It was simply unbearable for music or tv listening.
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Old 27th March 2013, 02:15 PM   #6648
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julf View Post
That might work with the UcD, but seems like a bad idea with the nCore.
It is a good idea for most amps . Tighter bass is the result. A Bus for Ground work better then star ground .
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Old 27th March 2013, 02:27 PM   #6649
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erlend Sæterdal View Post
It is a good idea for most amps . Tighter bass is the result. A Bus for Ground work better then star ground .
If you talk about connecting the nc400 ground and the smps ground, then perhaps. But not for "returning" the connection to the speaker.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Juhleren View Post
I believe this to be the reason for why Bruno placed both speaker terminals on the ncore boards and as close as possible...
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Old 27th March 2013, 02:44 PM   #6650
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I talk other amps.
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