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Old 20th February 2013, 09:06 AM   #6391
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by mangew View Post
i have never uesed an class D amp in my system, only A, A/B and some tube. Now i will try these amps since they seems to conquer a lot of the hifimarket .

I am convinced i be happy with an single NC400 /channel, but since i know there is possible to add some extra for not a fortune i am interested how to implement this also. I have read about this but i think i have not see any wiring or photo how they are connected in bridgemode.
Mangew,

If you're all new to class D, I'd say that you need to figure out your priorities regarding sound. All amps have their sound, and if you want to get rid of what many class D users call "added warmth" or other names for coloration you might like what class D and hypex can do. If on the other hand you seek a "nice sound" that makes everything sound enjoyable or friendly in a certain way, class D may be the wrong way...

ncore is ultra class D, that is ultra clean. So if you like that its king (and cheap in that regard), but if not it is just an expensive small lump of cheap components and a slap of aluminum...

In other words there are alternatives to explore class D; UCD is still mighty fine and offers close to what ncore does at much lower entry costs. The difference between UCD and ncore will in many cases be smaller than what can be achieved by less invested "upstream" in the chain. Implementation also seems critical form my own experience -especially regarding the PS.

If you take a couple of ucd180st's and the smps400 or a linear supply and you can be in class D land at 1/4th the cost of ncore....

-If you like that direction ncore is more of the same (or maybe rather less of the same...).

I have spent way too much on what others call heaven to regard any DIY (no free home trial) cheap. All the wrong turns add up, and I have been so badly disappointed by what seemed so promising from others writings. No specs, or double blind "objective fact" can ever account for Your subjective experience. And ALL amps do have a sound, no matter what is claimed -also ncore...

If you jump directly to ncore -then make sure to use it as standard as possible so it keeps its value in case it was the wrong direction.
If you love it, then go searching for likely and unlikely sources of improvement

Happy hunting!

Last edited by Juhleren; 20th February 2013 at 09:15 AM.
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Old 20th February 2013, 10:16 AM   #6392
mangew is offline mangew  Sweden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juhleren View Post
Mangew,

If you're all new to class D, I'd say that you need to figure out your priorities regarding sound. All amps have their sound, and if you want to get rid of what many class D users call "added warmth" or other names for coloration you might like what class D and hypex can do. If on the other hand you seek a "nice sound" that makes everything sound enjoyable or friendly in a certain way, class D may be the wrong way...

ncore is ultra class D, that is ultra clean. So if you like that its king (and cheap in that regard), but if not it is just an expensive small lump of cheap components and a slap of aluminum...

In other words there are alternatives to explore class D; UCD is still mighty fine and offers close to what ncore does at much lower entry costs. The difference between UCD and ncore will in many cases be smaller than what can be achieved by less invested "upstream" in the chain. Implementation also seems critical form my own experience -especially regarding the PS.

If you take a couple of ucd180st's and the smps400 or a linear supply and you can be in class D land at 1/4th the cost of ncore....

-If you like that direction ncore is more of the same (or maybe rather less of the same...).

I have spent way too much on what others call heaven to regard any DIY (no free home trial) cheap. All the wrong turns add up, and I have been so badly disappointed by what seemed so promising from others writings. No specs, or double blind "objective fact" can ever account for Your subjective experience. And ALL amps do have a sound, no matter what is claimed -also ncore...

If you jump directly to ncore -then make sure to use it as standard as possible so it keeps its value in case it was the wrong direction.
If you love it, then go searching for likely and unlikely sources of improvement

Happy hunting!
Thanks for your advice, appreciate all thoughts. As said earlier i haven´t explored class D but courious about it. And the other thing is i like DIY, never done anything like amps (electronic equipment) but several speakers and cables.

At the moment i have extremely nice sounding Avalon Eidolon "look a likes" and last i had Class A monoblocks (up to 400W A/B)running them but they are sold and i ready to try something different. The speakers produce plenty of bass and the top is not bright at all, they like some power and with low power block the lack of dynamic.

The ncore´s seems to be the modules i try if i go for class D, in the end they are cheap in compare to many other. Therefore i did hope i would get a wiring diagram and pictures of bridgecoupled modules. I probably start with single ones, and for that i think i manage to put together. But doesn´t know if i have to buy another power supply for bridgecoupled and if better buy one that fits 2 modules at start then.

If they sounds horrible in my ears as single, i can save them for future and look for something else or sell them without loosing a fortune as in factory made equipment.

My speakers, hope they match well with class D.
Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 20th February 2013, 10:55 AM   #6393
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mangew View Post
Thanks for your advice, appreciate all thoughts. As said earlier i haven´t explored class D but courious about it. And the other thing is i like DIY, never done anything like amps (electronic equipment) but several speakers and cables.

At the moment i have extremely nice sounding Avalon Eidolon "look a likes" and last i had Class A monoblocks (up to 400W A/B)running them but they are sold and i ready to try something different. The speakers produce plenty of bass and the top is not bright at all, they like some power and with low power block the lack of dynamic.

The ncore´s seems to be the modules i try if i go for class D, in the end they are cheap in compare to many other. Therefore i did hope i would get a wiring diagram and pictures of bridgecoupled modules. I probably start with single ones, and for that i think i manage to put together. But doesn´t know if i have to buy another power supply for bridgecoupled and if better buy one that fits 2 modules at start then.

If they sounds horrible in my ears as single, i can save them for future and look for something else or sell them without loosing a fortune as in factory made equipment.

My speakers, hope they match well with class D.
Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.
Stunning build!

If price is of little concern the ncore is state of the class D art.
Interestingly, many who go the ceramic low distortion way on speakers tend to pair them with "softish" tube amplification. I wonder how ceramic speakers sound on ultra high damping factor "hardish" amplification like the ncore... Please report your finding when you take the jump

-That said I'd bet crossover implementation and source equipment still have more to say than UCD vs ncore....

On bridging:

Wiring bridged ncore is basically to connect two ncores to either one or two PS. Then using only the "hot" speaker connections of both ncores while connecting the signal inversely to them. The idea is that they mirror each other so the signal appears amplified across the two "hot" terminals. A detail is that the "cold" terminal also should be connected through a small cap -can't remember the recommended value, but the amp should "work" without though better with...

Buy either 2xncore + one or two amps 600 or one smps1200 63V version.
Love that and buy another pair of ncores and another 1-3 smps600 or one smps 1200. That should work just fine. ncores will dissipate more heat if not using the smsp600 unless you roll your own driver supply...

good luck
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Old 20th February 2013, 11:32 AM   #6394
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Originally Posted by mcai7et2 View Post
Not sure if this is the appropriate place to post this, but I have a problem with my nCore/SMPS600 monoblocks. I went away for a week and got back today, and rather stupidly left everything turned on and plugged in. Now both amps are just clicking their relays every few seconds and not making any noise (no LEDs light up either).

Everything else that was plugged in still works (DAC, TV, sub, computer, etc), and I don't think there was a lightning strike. Nothing was being played while I was away. Both amps are affected, and the problem occurs whether or not they are plugged into a source or speakers. They are built into Modushop Galaxy cases with Neutrik PowerCon, XLR, and SpeakOn connections.

Any help gratefully received!
Just a quick update. Following some further investigation, a helpful PM on here, and an email from Hypex, it seems that the problem is (at least) in the SMPS600s. The relays click even when nothing is connected to them (apart from power input), and no voltage is present on the outputs.

Still no clue as to how this happened though, I double and triple checked everything and no problems anywhere. Hopefully Hypex will come through with a solution that does not require me spending another 350 euros on replacement modules
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Old 20th February 2013, 12:53 PM   #6395
Henkjan is offline Henkjan  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julf View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mangew View Post
One qoestion more, any running them with an DAC with volumecontrol? No preamp? In case i build i run them trough an DAC with volyme.
That's how I am running my amps right now. Works great.
that's what I intend as well. we did a test on a DIY gathering a couple of weeks ago, and my impression was that the gain of the ncore was not very high, had to turn up the volume to almost full to get it reasonably loud. this despite the fact that the DAC in question is supposed to give 2V output, and that acc Bruno 2V input should be the threshold of clipping the ncore. (this was with unbanlanced inputs on the ncore, I will change this to balanced in the final build) what is your experience?
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Old 20th February 2013, 01:08 PM   #6396
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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Originally Posted by Henkjan View Post
that's what I intend as well. we did a test on a DIY gathering a couple of weeks ago, and my impression was that the gain of the ncore was not very high, had to turn up the volume to almost full to get it reasonably loud. this despite the fact that the DAC in question is supposed to give 2V output, and that acc Bruno 2V input should be the threshold of clipping the ncore. (this was with unbanlanced inputs on the ncore, I will change this to balanced in the final build) what is your experience?
I have not had any gain problems, but I have a balanced source.
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Old 20th February 2013, 05:16 PM   #6397
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Connection diagram for bridging ucd, the same is valid for nCore.

150nf cap was recommended for ncore by Bruno in this thread a long time ago.

We have compared my bridge ones against my friends standard build. He is now going bridged as well.

The impedance the amplifier sees is halved when bridging, that you need to consider as well.
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Last edited by Rajapruk; 20th February 2013 at 05:18 PM.
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Old 20th February 2013, 05:40 PM   #6398
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is bridged better than bi-amping?
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Old 20th February 2013, 05:46 PM   #6399
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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Originally Posted by Rajapruk View Post
We have compared my bridge ones against my friends standard build.
Was that a level-matched, controlled dual-blind ABX comparison?
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Old 20th February 2013, 05:47 PM   #6400
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Originally Posted by turbogti View Post
is bridged better than bi-amping?
I do not know. Depends on the context I guess.

One theoretical pro for bridging is that noise from the power supply is cancelled out, if the same PS is used for the two bridged amplifiers.

Some theoretical pros for bi-amping is higher damping factor, and that lower impedance speakers can be used.
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