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Old 17th February 2013, 10:11 PM   #6371
ro9397 is offline ro9397  United States
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Yes, lower distortion, but (apparently) less audio performance. The more I think about, the more I think his choices were to give performance advantage to more costly OEM, while pointing to better specs for DIY.

Please, someone explain this for us: How can Bruno possibly sell any OEM a Hypex, when OEM street price must be and will be several multiples of DIY (similar technology), while in the same breath as mentioning the price to the OEM, Bruno tells the OEM he gives them a worse sounding input stage. That simply is impossible to believe, sorry. OEMs would laugh him out of the room and tell him he's banned till he repents.

Let me know if you disagree with me (I have manufacturing OEM experience) above makes absolutely, positively no sense at all. I'm not calling anyone a liar. I love Bruno. I sympathize.

I'm saying:
  1. DIY demanded discreet.
  2. Bruno gave DIY discreet.
  3. Something measures better in discreet vs. the op-amp.
  4. Bruno employs #3 as DIY marketing tool.
  5. Bruno gave OEM the op-amp, telling OEM to forgive and ignore #4 because the op-amp sounds better, which he demonstrates to them, which they agreed to keep confidential because to do otherwise hurts all concerned.
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Old 17th February 2013, 11:20 PM   #6372
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According to Bruno and Hypex, there is no material difference in the sound of the two modules.
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Old 18th February 2013, 05:19 AM   #6373
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuribo View Post
According to Bruno and Hypex, there is no material difference in the sound of the two modules.
And all we have seen so far to indicate any audible differences is speculation, hearsay and some subjective impressions from uncontrolled listening conditions.
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Old 18th February 2013, 07:32 AM   #6374
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Originally Posted by ro9397 View Post
The fact that several OEM have jumped on board supports the conclusion that OEM offer a better performing amp. I tend to think OEM have already done extensive AB testing vs. the DIY kit we all own.
I'm not so sure... since Hypex will not let OEM customers use the NC400, and DIY customers can not buy the NC1200.

It's a good business policy to avoid offering the same products to DIY and OEM customers. You avoid a direct comparison, and you also get a lot of free advertising in threads like this .....
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Old 18th February 2013, 10:11 AM   #6375
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Originally Posted by StigErik View Post
I'm not so sure... since Hypex will not let OEM customers use the NC400, and DIY customers can not buy the NC1200.

It's a good business policy to avoid offering the same products to DIY and OEM customers. You avoid a direct comparison, and you also get a lot of free advertising in threads like this .....
Exactly!

and there might also be some thoughts on "branding" and "market position" involved in that choice. It seems that the only available OEM ncore board is aimed at the "reference" segment -taking its power rating and prices of the commercial amps using it into consideration. A nc400 variant should be cheaper and "adequate" for most hence aiming broader than the nc1200, but it would not be taken as seriously and neither carry the prestige that is involved with the "elite-orientation" of the nc1200.

Back then, Bruno mentioned that the power rating of the nc400 had to be well below that of the nc1200 to not threat the high end market.
- In other words what kinda high end goone would ever consider anything rated at only 200W/8R to be a serious alternative

The actual perceived performance difference between nc400 and nc1200 probably has very little to say as they are BOTH proving what they set out to do: class D can compete with the best -at any price/power range.

That said, I see no reason not to hold the particular implementation of either boards accountable for their perceived performances. The commercial nc1200 offerings seems to have gone lengths to get their implementation "right". I don't think it's wise to rule out implementation as a probably "cause" for the audible differences between nc400 and nc1200 builds. At least as a more likely cause than their respective buffer solutions...

Another and unrelated performance aspect is that nc1200 has a more rugged O/P stage featuring more paralleled devices. - That's bad for measured distortion but might also be a reason for it's perceived edge when it comes to bass performance because there is more to conduct the current when needed.

Interestingly the nc1200 features higher "theoretical" output impedance than the nc400 (theoretical because it is defined by the feedback rather than the output devices). - This can "ever so slightly" give more "meat" in bass and smooth the highs too...

Last edited by Juhleren; 18th February 2013 at 10:17 AM.
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Old 18th February 2013, 02:53 PM   #6376
troystg is offline troystg  United States
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All this speculation... Bruno must be laughing his ____ off... ;-)
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Old 18th February 2013, 04:05 PM   #6377
pos is offline pos  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julf View Post
And all we have seen so far to indicate any audible differences is speculation, hearsay and some subjective impressions from uncontrolled listening conditions.
The closest thing to an ABX test I have seen implying some ncore tend to prove their is not sound difference between the nc400 and... a basic integrated amp : hypex ncore
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Old 18th February 2013, 04:10 PM   #6378
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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Originally Posted by pos View Post
The closest thing to an ABX test I have seen implying some ncore tend to prove their is not sound difference between the nc400 and... a basic integrated amp : hypex ncore
And as you can see from my comment to it, I was not entirely surprised
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Old 18th February 2013, 05:09 PM   #6379
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Originally Posted by Juhleren View Post
Any impressions on the passive vs active operation on the W4S?...
No, I am sorry, passing into the w4s's active operation mide would probably bust my ears and my speakers...
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Old 18th February 2013, 05:39 PM   #6380
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Originally Posted by sonnenwender View Post
No, I am sorry, passing into the w4s's active operation mide would probably bust my ears and my speakers...
So is it correctly understood that you cannot choose "all-active" operation because it only goes active when you need more signal than what the source produce ? -Which in practice would be the same as just calling it a passive pre...
From your description I somehow understood that you actually could choose to run it in all active mode too...

Last edited by Juhleren; 18th February 2013 at 05:49 PM.
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