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Old 17th October 2011, 07:14 PM   #591
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StigErik View Post
The situation is a bit different in the audio engineering and DIY communities, but not all that much really. I think audio should be measured a lot more than it is, development of audio products are too much based on feelings and marketing considerations, and too little on real measured performance!
Mmmm, how do you think to convince the people loving their tube amps (SE and/or PP) for example?
I think not by suggesting a lower distortion class D amplifier
There is nothing wrong with the "feeling" thing; it is the cream on the pie as we say here.
Isn't music about emotion? When the reproducing chain is able to display this emotion there is not much against it.
At the same time I am not suggesting that class D amplifiers might not be able to do this
There has been written enough on the subject of distortion and/or/vs musical perception.
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Old 17th October 2011, 07:23 PM   #592
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we're not trying to convince them. they can like whatever form of distortion they want.
let me give you this example, quoting someone I know: take one valve SET amp and measure its performance. then take a top of the line solid state one and do the same. compare performance and then compare sound. you'll find that they sound different. do you really think it's the SET amp that is neutral and transparent? do you really think the fact that a $30000 solid state amp has performance exceeding the one of the best Audio Precision measuring tools has nothing to do with exceptional perceived sound?
measurements are all over the net, reviews too. it's just a matter of little effort to try and correlate them.
for me the case is closed. I'm convinced that a lot of people don't care about faithful reproduction. Bruno chose not to follow that trend. some chose the "real audiophiles abhor negative feedback" one.
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Old 17th October 2011, 07:39 PM   #593
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Originally Posted by mr_push_pull View Post
I'm convinced that a lot of people don't care about faithful reproduction.
Well I do, and quite a few here too I suppose.
But when you suggest that "faithful reproduction" is the realm of future super low (class D) amplifiers, then we must have missed quite a lot in the past
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Old 17th October 2011, 07:58 PM   #594
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i feel like talking to myself. am i?
all I meant was that there is a correlation between measured performance and sound and NCore promises to be in the upper league.
I feel that you have something to say but don't have the guts to. come on, spit it out.
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Old 17th October 2011, 07:59 PM   #595
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You can't please everyone, that is true in audio as well......

For me - better measured performance usually means better sound, or at least good sounding products measure good.

Music is (among other things) emotion and feellings. Reproducing music is not.
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Old 17th October 2011, 08:13 PM   #596
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Originally Posted by mr_push_pull View Post
all I meant was that there is a correlation between measured performance and sound.......

Really? Well, in my experience not always a positive one...

I feel that you have something to say but don't have the guts to. come on, spit it out.

No, nothing to add.
Oh, maybe that the seemingly difficult wait for the Ncore reminds me of customers (in my days as a hifi salesman) asking about once a week when the ........MkII would pop in hoping for even better specs (and therefore enhanced listening pleasure .....).
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Old 17th October 2011, 08:15 PM   #597
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no, I don't believe you have nothing to add.
come on, say it.
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Old 17th October 2011, 08:22 PM   #598
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Default Stig:

Have you ever listened to those very expensive amplifiers from Australia, the ones with the exceptional measurements (starts with an "H")?
I have, and they sound horrible. While I am not suggesting that I would prefer an amplifier with a poor set of measurements, I do believe that the traditional measurements for audio amplifiers do not tell the entire story of what a given amplifier will sound like. Please do not take my opinion the wrong way, I like an amp that both measures well and sounds good. I just feel that the traditional set of measurements applied to amplifiers, are not adequate to completely describe the performance of an audio product.
I would expect most of us have had the (listening) experience of two amplifiers which measure almost identically sounding quite different.
I do hope, that the nCore will sound as good as they measure, but until we hear them, we cannot know what they will sound like.
I also hope that some day we will have a more complete understanding of measurable parameters which govern the sound, and the tools to measure those parameters accurately.
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Old 17th October 2011, 08:53 PM   #599
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_push_pull View Post
we're not trying to convince them. they can like whatever form of distortion they want.
let me give you this example, quoting someone I know: take one valve SET amp and measure its performance. then take a top of the line solid state one and do the same. compare performance and then compare sound. you'll find that they sound different. do you really think it's the SET amp that is neutral and transparent? do you really think the fact that a $30000 solid state amp has performance exceeding the one of the best Audio Precision measuring tools has nothing to do with exceptional perceived sound?
measurements are all over the net, reviews too. it's just a matter of little effort to try and correlate them.
for me the case is closed. I'm convinced that a lot of people don't care about faithful reproduction. Bruno chose not to follow that trend. some chose the "real audiophiles abhor negative feedback" one.
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Old 17th October 2011, 09:00 PM   #600
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Originally Posted by mr_push_pull View Post
no, I don't believe you have nothing to add.
come on, say it.
Who has a problem here?
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