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Old 16th January 2013, 09:57 AM   #5981
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I don't have a pre. DAC's are connected directly to the Ncore's. That's why I needed to reduce the gain.

Have not (and will not..) try transformers.
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Old 16th January 2013, 01:41 PM   #5982
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Hmmm, very interesting that the resister show such different results...
My humble guess would be that the amp has been designed to have it for a reason (dare I say it - it probably has been "tuned" to perform it´s best with that resistor). The altered nfb behavior and as a result (among other things) altered distortion characteristics may in theory be lower but if it (the "Total" harmonic distortion) is changed in composition it may however actually be more audible too...

Interesting that in systems with preamps large differences are detected (both the this particular resistor and in general too) and in systems without, nothing is detectable (almost ever) -reportedly neither cables, power conditions, the amp´s mechanical coupling, generally nothing can reportedly be heard on such systems...

In my humble experience, where the greatest improvements have been done are in the preamp. Had a simple buffer stage some years ago and though it sounded very clear, clean, and "linear" - but it never made real sense out of the "music".

Then I tried some more "bulky" preamp designs and though they didn´t necessarily improved the "HIFI attributes" such as cleanness and linearity (sometimes they actually degraded them a bit), they made much more sense out of the content - the music.

Have never looked back since, and removing the pre don´t "remove" the problem - it just "moves" it. Never experiences musical satisfaction from a system without a world class preamp in the chain. Reportedly recording studios spend insane amounts on their mic-preamps and have as a consequence to do much less fiddling down the chain with frequency/effects/compressors to get the best out of the source...

just food for thoughts

Last edited by Juhleren; 16th January 2013 at 01:46 PM.
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Old 16th January 2013, 01:51 PM   #5983
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akasha View Post
at a evening i Copenhagen Hi-Fi club (Storkøbenhavns Hi-Fi Klub Hvidovre) last year, the ncore with linear PSU (and R141) totally trashed the ncore with SMPS (no R141)
Double-blind ABX?
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Old 16th January 2013, 01:51 PM   #5984
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OllBoll View Post
But you'd have to use quite a large resistor and even if you use a large one a true current source amp is better.
In my tests I found that using a resistor that is around 3 or 4 times the Re of the driver already hit a sweet spot in term of distortion reduction (15dB of 3rd order distortion with my midbass driver, after having adjusted levels and EQs for the same final SPL of course).

Quote:
I'm still hoping hypex will produce a current source NCore, ideally a lower powered one or a dual channel NCore module but I wouldn't complain if it was a normal single channel one

With DSP being so widespread now the different driver response shoulnd't be an issue, would make an awesome combo with the DLCP for sure =)
amen to that
Current drive with bass reflex will likely remain difficult though, as it will require very precise adjustements...
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Old 16th January 2013, 01:54 PM   #5985
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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Originally Posted by Juhleren View Post
My humble guess would be that the amp has been designed to have it for a reason (dare I say it - it probably has been "tuned" to perform it´s best with that resistor).
Nice conjuncture - but just a conjuncture. As stated before, the opinion from Bruno is that the nc400 should perform marginally better with lowered gain.

Quote:
The altered nfb behavior and as a result (among other things) altered distortion characteristics may in theory be lower but if it (the "Total" harmonic distortion) is changed in composition it may however actually be more audible too...
With or without R141, the distortion is so low that I doubt it causes any audible differences.
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Old 16th January 2013, 01:59 PM   #5986
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Originally Posted by StigErik View Post
I don't have a pre. DAC's are connected directly to the Ncore's. That's why I needed to reduce the gain.

Have not (and will not..) try transformers.
so it works in your specific system, as does with my tube pre and horns

but in most other combinations we have tried, the loss in sound quality was clear in different degrees

I just want people to be aware, its far from the best solution in all systems
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Old 16th January 2013, 02:01 PM   #5987
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Originally Posted by Julf View Post
Double-blind ABX?
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Old 16th January 2013, 02:01 PM   #5988
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Hi akasha,

How do you now the difference you heard (or think you heard) was due to the gain setting of the nCore? Did you perform a double blind ABX test?
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Old 16th January 2013, 02:03 PM   #5989
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Originally Posted by Julf View Post
Nice conjuncture - but just a conjuncture. As stated before, the opinion from Bruno is that the nc400 should perform marginally better with lowered gain.



With or without R141, the distortion is so low that I doubt it causes any audible differences.
I never! blamed the ncore
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Old 16th January 2013, 02:07 PM   #5990
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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Originally Posted by akasha View Post
but in most other combinations we have tried, the loss in sound quality was clear in different degrees

I just want people to be aware, its far from the best solution in all systems
Sure, and appreciated. But I think it is also appropriate to make sure people are aware that you are the only one to report the loss in sound quality, while several of us have observed the opposite. In absence of reliable ABX results, we can only take your observations as an individual, subjective view, for whatever it is worth.
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