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Old 22nd November 2012, 05:36 PM   #5591
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_push_pull View Post
I know people who upgraded the internal cabling on cheap and badly sounding speakers (the kind that uses the cheapest electrolytics on xo's) and claimed extraordinary improvements. I own speakers that are simply better in every way and haven't heard obvious improvements with cables. if there were any, they were slim. I also know about cable demos when some people pretended to hear the difference in order not to upset the dealers (on systems that are much better than mine). they have admitted it behind closed doors (who knows, maybe one day that dealer will offer a significant discount for some component, why make enemies?)
I have tested differences between different components and while I think heard differences, I wouldn't put more any money on it. I'm simply not convinced it wasn't a case of me wanting to hear the differences.
I know that some things do bring significant improvements. I also do know that not everything brings an improvement. so I take every opinion, especially those from strangers and when they're about a 2cm piece of wire that seems to render unmeasurable improvements with a grain of salt.
meanwhile, we're still beating the long dead horse. I find it weird when someone mentions measurements without giving details, especially on diyaudio. I wouldn't be surprised if it happened on other forums. sounds like the marketing dpt.
and I can't see why you still imply that we said those differences didn't exist, when in fact both me and Julf said the contrary. this is what I mean by beating the dead horse, these discussions are all too predictable.
Really? I said that if you are not close minded (in response to you claiming not to be so, which I accept) that perhaps you might try some fuses. Nothing wrong with being skeptical, especially in high end audio where things like $20K interconnects exist! Honestly, I am not trying to sell fuses, I am not associated in any way with any company which produces or markets fuses. I did previously work at PS Audio, but that was years ago….
I did not link to measurements, specifically because I feel the measurements which have been published are entirely inadequate (of R and voltage drop of various fuses under test), hence my suggestion that someone who is able might try doing some on an AP-2. I would specifically like to see distortion measurements under different current loads.
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Old 22nd November 2012, 05:46 PM   #5592
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I'd be more than happy to do measurements but the loan for the AP2 was refused by the bank LOL
also, there's no fuse inside my equipment. I'm cereal. I'll happily admit that a special fuse can bring improvements over a regular one. but I can't for the life of me see how it can improve things over the case where there's no fuse at all.
really, I'm off, beer awaits.
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Old 22nd November 2012, 05:50 PM   #5593
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_push_pull View Post
I'd be more than happy to do measurements but the loan for the AP2 was refused by the bank LOL
also, there's no fuse inside my equipment. I'm cereal. I'll happily admit that a special fuse can bring improvements over a regular one. but I can't for the life of me see how it can improve things over the case where there's no fuse at all.
really, I'm off, beer awaits.
Yes, I would never expect a fuse to outperform a nice piece of suitable gauge wire! That would be audiophile "magic".
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Old 22nd November 2012, 06:27 PM   #5594
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_push_pull View Post
but I can't for the life of me see how it can improve things over the case where there's no fuse at all.
Now let's organize some blind test between an expensive audiophile nofuse against an ordinary cheap one.

About intelligence of some so calling gurus, well, how to say ? Sense of wires ?
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Old 22nd November 2012, 06:49 PM   #5595
Regnad is offline Regnad  United States
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I have a pair of Merrill Audio Veritas amps that have stock 5 amps fuses installed and they are the best amps i have ever heard in my setup.

In a week or so I will receive replacement SR20 (Synergetic Research) fuses and will see if I can tell any difference and if one way is "better" than another.

Has anyone seen pictures or movies of the internal wire in a fuse flexing and bending with changing current? That is what happens, right?

I imagine that circuit breakers have a very small contact area? How do they work?

Fun hobby!
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Old 22nd November 2012, 07:22 PM   #5596
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That is what happens, right?
Well, not exactly. What's we care of is that the resistance value of the fuse increase with temp, and temp with flowing current. So current is not any more linear. Nothing to worry about, on my point of view for two reasons, the fuse's resistance is little, added at the more important temperature change of transconductance and RTSon of FETs with temp, and the little added error (distortion) will be compensated in the feedback loop of the amp.
In SMPS, no fear to have, because there is caps after, so the changes will be much slower than any signal, and negligible VS changes in AC level in outlet.
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Last edited by Esperado; 22nd November 2012 at 07:26 PM.
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Old 22nd November 2012, 08:43 PM   #5597
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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Originally Posted by Regnad View Post
In a week or so I will receive replacement SR20 (Synergetic Research) fuses and will see if I can tell any difference and if one way is "better" than another.
Problem is that unless you have a double set of amps and an audio switcher you won't be able to do any sort of ABX....
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Old 22nd November 2012, 08:50 PM   #5598
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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Originally Posted by Esperado View Post
I wonder why so few people take care of shielding their SMPS.
Maybe because it says "low EMI" in big, friendly letters right at the start of the data sheet of the SMPS600.
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Old 22nd November 2012, 08:55 PM   #5599
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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Originally Posted by Esperado View Post
On the contrary. As the two frequencies are not the same, think (not sure the English word) 'Beat frequency' and their products ?
The SMPS600 has synchronous rectification.
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Old 22nd November 2012, 09:40 PM   #5600
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Cool hahaha

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julf View Post
Problem is that unless you have a double set of amps and an audio switcher you won't be able to do any sort of ABX....
you mean to suggest, Julf, that you cannot remember the sound of your mother's (or sister's, daughters', brother's, etc) voice on the telephone (not exactly high res sound there either) unless you just talked to them 10 seconds ago? The idea that sonic memory is so short is flawed. Also, listening is a skill which can be made better through practice. I would entirely discount any studies made on the "population at large", the same way I would not suggest that the average driver could step into an F1 car and be expected to equal Lewis Hamilton's lap times.

In any case, it would not be too hard to do a mono test to AB and even X if one really needed to.

All in good fun.
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