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Old 19th November 2012, 12:23 PM   #5501
AP2 is offline AP2  Italy
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Hi,
Maybe I can clarify why I jumped on this thread.

First of all I would like to thank qusp, for clearing up my post and someone for having decoded well, the sense of my posts.
I know well that too many sides of the sound, are still obscure and open to new studies. for that very reason, we must use well the known science. (I have called basic science).
If we translate as subjective even the basics, then we lose. (I understand that for some, it may be convenient).right in this I do not agree.

Accurate measurements, and a correct interpretation can help us to set more realistically as possible the amplification of sound.
Obvious that remains psychoacoustics and other, given that the sound should be reproduced by a speaker, then through the air reaches our ears, and our brain does the rest. (only in the latter passage, we know only 30%.)
Retouched something goes out from the amplifier, and not on amplifier (if it is more correct possible).
well, now back in my harem.

Regards

Last edited by AP2; 19th November 2012 at 12:26 PM.
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Old 19th November 2012, 12:57 PM   #5502
tony399 is offline tony399  United Kingdom
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Bruno warns against using regulated linear supplies when I aked him;

'The problem regulating the HV supplies is that half bridge class D amplifiers always draw a slight excess of power from one rail and dump this in the other or vice versa depending on the instantaneous polarity of the output signal (ie one way during one half cycle, the other way during the other half). Ordinary supplies don't mind. The storage caps will just store that bit of excess charge and deliver it back half a cycle later. Regulated supplies can't do this. They just go out of regulation and let the rail voltage run away. It's not only bass performance that is affected. You might actually find the amplifier turning off all the time as its overvoltage protection kicks in.'

He also said that a linear supply (unregulated of course) is very nearly as good as their SMPS.
I was asking because I already had all the parts for a high grade linear power supply (x2) so wanted to save money not buying the SMPS.
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Old 19th November 2012, 01:05 PM   #5503
AP2 is offline AP2  Italy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony399 View Post
Bruno warns against using regulated linear supplies when I aked him;

'The problem regulating the HV supplies is that half bridge class D amplifiers always draw a slight excess of power from one rail and dump this in the other or vice versa depending on the instantaneous polarity of the output signal (ie one way during one half cycle, the other way during the other half). Ordinary supplies don't mind. The storage caps will just store that bit of excess charge and deliver it back half a cycle later. Regulated supplies can't do this. They just go out of regulation and let the rail voltage run away. It's not only bass performance that is affected. You might actually find the amplifier turning off all the time as its overvoltage protection kicks in.'

He also said that a linear supply (unregulated of course) is very nearly as good as their SMPS.
I was asking because I already had all the parts for a high grade linear power supply (x2) so wanted to save money not buying the SMPS.
For this reason, there are measures ... just to see the real behavior, specially under the dynamic profile.
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Old 19th November 2012, 01:05 PM   #5504
qusp is offline qusp  Australia
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well i'll let AP2 answer, but the DPS600 has differential sense/feedback and there is a version specifically designed for Class D, so perhaps this has been taken into account, I gather the approach is quite novel

edit: haha as I thought, he was posting as I was by the looks of it. but it may only be able to back off, rather than actually consume current perhaps?

Last edited by qusp; 19th November 2012 at 01:13 PM.
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Old 19th November 2012, 02:46 PM   #5505
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Default If one feels that...

they need a regulated supply to improve the performance of the nCore amps, why not just power the SMPS600 from a good AC regenerator. The regenerator will then provide rock solid voltage at low output impedance to the SMPS600, and the output voltage of the SMPS600 will be held constant (as Bruno has stated that the output voltage of the SMPS600 is constant with the input volatge).
One might want to monitor AC line voltage levels while playing the system at high levels to see if the line voltage is being modulated by the load in the first place.
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Old 19th November 2012, 03:27 PM   #5506
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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small mains voltage variations, whats the problem ?
I don't understand
is amp curcuit not compensated to deal with small bias and dc variations, or whatever it does ?
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Old 19th November 2012, 04:53 PM   #5507
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Please, we have to never, never forget, when we think about some impact of an audio part, to have a clear vision of the landscape, and degree of magnitude.
About regulated SMPS, it is just a servo feeding a servo. Depending of the time behavior of each, it can be better or worse than a non regulated one. Wiring matters as well.
One thing is obvious, if you use the power supply that was tested by the amp's designer and reported by several people as sounding OK, you are sure to not engage yourself in a bet.
That does not mean than an other power supply will not does better or equal.

About what i consider as an excess of 'objectivism' (AP2 position), we have to remember too that we know few from physics, properties of the things we build (components as well) and audio hifi is just a make believe game.
Pure naive audiophiles show an excess in the opposite middle aged direction.
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Last edited by Esperado; 19th November 2012 at 05:02 PM.
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Old 19th November 2012, 05:08 PM   #5508
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esperado View Post
One thing is obvious, if you use the power supply that was tested by the amp's designer and reported by several people as sounding OK, you are sure to not engage yourself in a bet.
That does not mean than an other power supply will not does better or equal.
I think you have a good point - just replacing a custom-designed SMPS with a generic linear power supply, without understanding the design constraints and demands of a switching amplifier won't lead to good results. If you want to go for an alternative power supply solution, you'd better understand what problem you are trying to solve.

Quote:
Pure naive audiophiles show an excess in the opposite middle aged direction.
I know I am starting to show an excess of middle age - I wish I could head in the opposite direction...
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Old 19th November 2012, 06:34 PM   #5509
qusp is offline qusp  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrows View Post
they need a regulated supply to improve the performance of the nCore amps, why not just power the SMPS600 from a good AC regenerator. The regenerator will then provide rock solid voltage at low output impedance to the SMPS600, and the output voltage of the SMPS600 will be held constant (as Bruno has stated that the output voltage of the SMPS600 is constant with the input volatge).
One might want to monitor AC line voltage levels while playing the system at high levels to see if the line voltage is being modulated by the load in the first place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinitus View Post
small mains voltage variations, whats the problem ?
I don't understand
is amp curcuit not compensated to deal with small bias and dc variations, or whatever it does ?
it really doesnt have much to do with mains fluctuation, though that is dealt with as well, so I dont know what a power regenerator is supposed to do, but at the same time i'm making no claims in relation to a regulated ps with this amp. it was asked what was a good high current egulated supply, I mentioned one that also happened to be made by another contributor to the thread, one that I happen to also own.

It is also one that has apparently been used by 'the shaman' with NCORE?, without the aforementioned issues in the bass or cutting off,. I say this because he needs his friend to buy another pair of amps so he can do a meaningful comparison to the SMPS600, presumably he wouldnt need to do such a careful comparison if the bass was severely distorted and the amp cutting out....

Last edited by qusp; 19th November 2012 at 06:42 PM.
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Old 19th November 2012, 06:45 PM   #5510
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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well, 'we' often claim all sorts of weird and strange things because we believe it sounds better

I remember once I thought a resistor sounded better
until I noticed I had forgot to connect both ends
I always keep that in mind before making 'certain claims'
and at other times, what appears to sounds 'absolutely fantastic and stunning', suddenly sounds much much better when changed later on

hey, Im joking
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