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Old 14th November 2012, 05:02 PM   #5391
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and since I linked the 6moons review/interview... what do you know...

You and I are both tube-heads! I too had always associated distortion-free with emotionless, sterile and clinical until I met the owner of FM Acoustics, Mr. Manuel Huber (as colorful a character as you've ever met!). He explained to me the difference between real music reproduction and euphonic distortion, a conversation I've remembered ever since. It's the difference between a freshly shucked Belon oyster and the cooked Singapore oyster omelette with hot chili sauce.
(Gary Koh, Genesis owner)

and since most won't have the patience to dig through the typical heaps of 6moons hand waving (as proved above), here's the portion about the supply:
6moons audioreviews: Genesis Reference Amplifier SideBar 1
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Old 14th November 2012, 05:08 PM   #5392
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtwrace View Post
What do you find interesting?
this:
I don't think there is any significant difference over the UCD400s in the bass and midrange. However, I have convinced myself that the treble is just a bit smoother, detailed, and easier on the ears. Being an old grizzled engineer, I would love to do a double-blind test to prove what I just said, but I do not have the necessary equipment to perform one. When I switched from an Audio Research Classic 60 tube amp to the UCDs a few years ago there was no doubt about the difference, but I am far less confident about the audible improvement of Ncores over UCDs. Of course, I am confident my 71 year old ears are not as golden as most on this forum, so my observations may not be worth much.

and how that helps me in my mental gymnastics LOL
more exactly, the wishful thinking that I do, trying to convince myself my UCD is enough
now seriously, I don't doubt NCORE sounds better. it's just that I still keep wondering if that would be so in my not-so-neutral system. but, as I said, I decided to just wait and enjoy the music meanwhile.
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Old 14th November 2012, 05:20 PM   #5393
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AP2 View Post
Reading the last post, I am a doubt. ... tons of theory are not applicable?.
strange!
It would be useless to enter in this old sea snake, scientists against audiophiles...
(read my signature)
I'm neither the one neither the other, or, better, a little of the two.
I mean, maths are good to design and measurements to see what happens and understand more.
But our ears and brains are pretty complex interface in the make believe game of audio reproduction, and, during my life, i had several occasion to assist at the evolution of measurements practices, discovering new kind of distortions and to improve my listening accuracy etc...
So, as far i'm concerned, i lie on both, and use to listen a lot at the end of my design processes and always get some real improvements in this. That was the reason of my questions, answers will be taken with precautions, of course, i don't believe in marketing poetry ;-)
But each time you ask a single question in this forum(with something behind you mind), you get silly flame wars instead of simple responses to them.

To respond to your question, and on my point of view, yes "tons of theory" are applicable (when verified) but they NEVER cover the all story, reason why nothing, NEVER, is perfect.
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Last edited by Esperado; 14th November 2012 at 05:29 PM.
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Old 14th November 2012, 05:36 PM   #5394
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esperado View Post
But each time you ask a single question in this forum(with something behind you mind), you get silly flame wars instead of simple responses to them.
patronizing surely makes one feel nice.
look, it's just a few days ago that I asked on another forum a rather subjective question about some DACs. I was instantly annihilated by a hoard of objectivists.
coming to think of it, I'm not even sure they weren't right in some ways.
being on DIYaudio and audio forums in general since around 2000, I realized in time that not getting the answers (or in some cases, not hearing what one wants to hear) is part of the game and one must learn to deal with that. sometimes, giving frank answers can even earn one opprobrium. displaying dissatisfaction for not getting the answers is generally as silly as not getting them. trust me, been there.

your questions have been asked before and IMO the answerers seemed highly biased by facts that are totally unrelated to audio quality and more related to ego issues. I'd be more than happy to read a report from someone who seems like a balanced person, though.
I'll make it even easier for you and summarize: based on what I read here most NCORE users don't use linear supplies.
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Last edited by mr_push_pull; 14th November 2012 at 05:41 PM.
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Old 14th November 2012, 06:31 PM   #5395
toufu is offline toufu  United States
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What kind of power supply does the NCORE need if I go the linear route?
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Old 14th November 2012, 07:08 PM   #5396
Koifarm is offline Koifarm  Netherlands
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+/0/- 65V/5A with 20000uf capacity a rail.
+/0/- 18V/100mA regulated with lm317/lm337 or better.

Last edited by Koifarm; 14th November 2012 at 07:13 PM.
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Old 14th November 2012, 07:09 PM   #5397
3lviz is offline 3lviz  Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_push_pull View Post
this:
I don't think there is any significant difference over the UCD400s in the bass and midrange. However, I have convinced myself that the treble is just a bit smoother, detailed, and easier on the ears.
Interesting indeed. This is pretty much same as my experience. And i have read quite the same on one other review too. The review is in finnish, but maybe you can get something out of it with a translator:
Hypex NCore NC400 -vahvistinmoduulit testissä | AudioVideo.fi

However, what can one expect? UCD is supposed to be very neutral amp. nCore is supposed to be very very neutral. If Hypex makes amp that is very very very very neutral, i won't buy it. I am now good with the level of neutral. Can't go more neutral so that I can still hear it.

Infact, if UCD and nCore sounded very different, that could be considered a failure for Hypex. They are supposed to sound quite the same. Imo, this just supports the fact that Hypex knows what they are doing.

One big difference between UCD and nCore (as in performance) is the output impedance. UCD has it somewhere around 20-150 mOhm and nCore has just 1-3 mOhm. Actually, could that better impedance behaviour at higher freqs (>2kHz) be the one thing that people are hearing when comparing UCD and nCore?

Last edited by 3lviz; 14th November 2012 at 07:13 PM.
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Old 14th November 2012, 07:17 PM   #5398
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toufu View Post
What kind of power supply does the NCORE need if I go the linear route?
+-35-75V, lots of current, at least 4700 uF caps per rail
+-16-25V, 40 mA, low ripple
16-25V, 70mA floating (optional)
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Old 14th November 2012, 07:21 PM   #5399
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In my experience, NCores are better than UCDs in bass as well. Hard-to-believe type of "better".
That's with the SMPS600 but I'm also going to try them with the Audiopower regulated SMPS (DPS-600/DA).
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Old 14th November 2012, 07:21 PM   #5400
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3lviz View Post
The review is in finnish, but maybe you can get something out of it with a translator
Some of us are OK reading Finnish
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