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Old 27th October 2012, 09:37 PM   #5281
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take them apart and post pics
I'm curios if it's the annealed super oxygen-free Cardas copper or something else
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Old 27th October 2012, 10:33 PM   #5282
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Default hi...

Regnad. There has been some speculation as to what might be responsible for the sonic differences between the nC1200 and nC400. Some of this speculation has centered on two things: The nC400 uses three, Wima, .68 polyester caps for the output filter, for a value of ~2uF. Some have seen six caps on the nC1200 of similar size; this could indicate that the caps on the nC1200 are polypropylene models from Wima. Could you check this, as I am very curious about it. And what value are the nC1200 caps?
Additionally, Veritas I believe replaces the stock fuses with Synergistic fuses (do not start laughing). My experience with ICEpower modules, also with fuses on the integrated SMPS, was that the fuses do make a notable difference: have you tried different fuses in your nC400?

Of course, then there is the additional power, whether this makes much difference will depend on how demanding your speakers are...

Last edited by barrows; 27th October 2012 at 10:45 PM.
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Old 27th October 2012, 10:36 PM   #5283
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Originally Posted by Turbonsx View Post
Barrows,

Just the M-cap supremes, 1 mf. I didn't want to outlay to much money initially.

The NCore's are only running the mid/high. The bass and sub- bass are handled through separate amps running through an active x-over that is Jensen transformer coupled, so no DC issues on those.

The Jensen coupling on the mid/high drivers was killing the resolution of the NOs1' so I'm running them straight from the NC400's with a passive x-over between the mid/tweeter and no x-over on the bottom end of the mids.
I should mention these are Audio Artistry Beethoven Grandes, so full dipoles on all drivers.(Premier design of Linkwitz before he left the company and started doing the DIY Orion's.)

Todd
OK, got it, so you have a complex system and might have to try lots of different things. My experience has been that the Supremes are really good coupling caps, but I have not yet had the opportunity where they are compared to a no cap reference, so I will not suggest that they are entirely transparent (I hope to test this in the next few months though). Since you are running the midrange with no high pass, it will see the low frequency range, and hence I would suspect that phase shift of the upper bass frequencies could colour the sound some due to the 1uF cap value. If i were you I would be tempted to try Supremes in a 2.2uF value and see if that makes a difference before spending mega bucks on teflon or Dueland caps…

Additionally: you are aware that the Jensen transformers will produce quite a bit of distortion if there is much DC present from pin 2 to pin 3, right? I do not know how much DC you have, but if it is "a lot" you might want to consult with Jensen on how much DC your transformers can handle before the start distorting.

Last edited by barrows; 27th October 2012 at 10:49 PM.
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Old 28th October 2012, 08:24 AM   #5284
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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Originally Posted by Regnad View Post
I received a pair of Veritas amps yesterday and am quite surprised (and pleased) at how much better they are than my DIY NC400s.
Did you compare the amps using (double) blind procedures?
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Old 28th October 2012, 09:46 AM   #5285
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Are the Veritas amps based on NC1200 ?
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Old 28th October 2012, 09:51 AM   #5286
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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Originally Posted by StigErik View Post
Are the Veritas amps based on NC1200 ?
Yes. Merrill Audio Veritas
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Old 28th October 2012, 10:09 AM   #5287
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Originally Posted by Julf View Post
Did you compare the amps using (double) blind procedures?
They are more exspensive so for sure they are better.
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Old 28th October 2012, 11:21 AM   #5288
ChrisPa is offline ChrisPa  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrows View Post
Regnad. There has been some speculation as to what might be responsible for the sonic differences between the nC1200 and nC400. Some of this speculation has centered on two things: The nC400 uses three, Wima, .68 polyester caps for the output filter, for a value of ~2uF. Some have seen six caps on the nC1200 of similar size; this could indicate that the caps on the nC1200 are polypropylene models from Wima. Could you check this, as I am very curious about it. And what value are the nC1200 caps?
Additionally, Veritas I believe replaces the stock fuses with Synergistic fuses (do not start laughing). My experience with ICEpower modules, also with fuses on the integrated SMPS, was that the fuses do make a notable difference: have you tried different fuses in your nC400?

Of course, then there is the additional power, whether this makes much difference will depend on how demanding your speakers are...
With the nc1200s the manufacturer is left to implement the input stage.
Maybe this has something to do with the difference

Remember, Bruno said he endeavoured to make the nc400s the most neutral amps he could, and not to give them any 'sound'. And that he spent a lot of time audibly comparing the input signal with the output signal
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Old 28th October 2012, 02:54 PM   #5289
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Default NO

[QUOTE=ChrisPa;3218306]With the nc1200s the manufacturer is left to implement the input stage.
Maybe this has something to do with the difference

No, this is not the case. With the nC1200 the manufacturer has the option to implement their own input stage. The two nC1200 based amplifiers whic I know of right now, the Atsahs, and the Veritas, are both bog stock nC1200 modules with matching SMPS from Hypex, with no manufacturer created input stages.

Interesting that some are reporting the nC1200 sounds better than the nC400. Bruno has mentioned that he does feel that way. The nC1200 has more distortion than the nC400... Hmmm. Maybe measurements are not what matters... Discussion? Or, maybe the power difference is what is responsible for the reported "better" sound, despite the increased distortion of the nC1200?
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Old 28th October 2012, 03:20 PM   #5290
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrows View Post
The nC1200 has more distortion than the nC400... Hmmm. Maybe measurements are not what matters... Discussion? Or, maybe the power difference is what is responsible for the reported "better" sound, despite the increased distortion of the nC1200?
Or maybe the distortion in the nc1200 is euphonic or harmonically pleasing?
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