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Old 10th October 2012, 08:57 AM   #5161
ChrisPa is offline ChrisPa  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goto View Post
My own upper limit is about 15khz and will only get worse as I age. I'd rather spend my audio pennies improving the performance of the system within the range I can hear because that's ALL I can hear! Reproducing the ultrasonic harmonic products of cymbals won't be audible to me, no matter how faithfully my system might reproduce them.
Interesting you should think of it that way

I don't know my limits on pure tones, but I'd be surprised if I can still hear above 15k - tinitius is my friend

However

I can hear the effects of different DAC filters (not all filters of course). These are all operating and having effects above 15k and therefore by your argument are inaudible. I spend a lot of my time standing behind live orchestras and by heck can I hear the difference between live cymbals and gongs and poorly reporoduced cymbals and gongs (which I hear all too often)

From any engineering design point of view we must sensibly handle something outside the audio band so that it has no effect within the audio band. Saying 'I can't hear above 15kHz' is far too simplistic. On the other hand having a 1MHz transducer when there is no input signal at that freqeuncy (unless it's a distortion artefact) is probably going a little too far the other way

BTW, when I was a teenager I could hear pure tones up to 22kHz - why should a system be designed that's right for an older generation but wrong for younger ears? Why do we have to accept a bad compromise?

This is all so off topic
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Old 10th October 2012, 09:23 AM   #5162
Julf is online now Julf  Europe
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Goto,

You might remember that I was the one who wrote

Quote:
My point is that there is no need to be able to reproduce a 10 kHz square wave, as your source material (music) won't contain any 10 kHz square waves - the material is already, by the time it gets to the amp, low-pass filtered.

If your source is a CD, there is absolutely no original material over 22 kHz. If your source is vinyl, you might get up to 30 kHz the first couple of times you play the record. Even "hi-res" digital recordings won't contain material above 100 kHz...

"If it's not there, it is not there" is true for harmonics, too...
A completely different point is that the "Ultra Tweeter" that StigErik linked to doesn't *reproduce* ultrasound, it supposedly works by "quantum mechanically modifying the air molecules" using microwaves, to affect how audible frequencies get reproduced. Total audiophile voodoo, of course, but at least it theoretically illustrates how HF signals *that are not part of the original signal* can affect audible frequencies. But as long as you make sure there isn't some sort of ultra-high-frequency intermodulation going on, theer is of course no need for the ncore amps to reproduce anything above 100k...
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Old 10th October 2012, 09:27 AM   #5163
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We heard the NCORE in our hificlub in Copenhagen last friday. In the combination with a dacpre I made, the sound was amazing. Everybody was silent and just listened. That is the best sign you can get.
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Old 10th October 2012, 10:21 AM   #5164
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Was that in combination with SMPS or different power supply? Any other mods?
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Old 10th October 2012, 10:40 AM   #5165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPa View Post
On the other hand having a 1MHz transducer when there is no input signal at that freqeuncy (unless it's a distortion artefact) is probably going a little too far the other way
The device I linked to that started this discussion operates above 1 GHz.... Gigahertz, 1.000.000.000 Hz.

There is no need to feed the device with a 1 GHz signal, as the output is generated in the device... if I understand it correctly. It should be able to cook a chicken during just 4-5 Justin Bieber tracks at full volume.


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Old 10th October 2012, 10:47 AM   #5166
Julf is online now Julf  Europe
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Originally Posted by StigErik View Post
It should be able to cook a chicken during just 4-5 Justin Bieber tracks at full volume.
Wouldn't that be cruel to the chicken?
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Old 10th October 2012, 10:47 AM   #5167
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Originally Posted by Mark Verhoeven View Post
Was that in combination with SMPS or different power supply? Any other mods?
Linear supply and we had two monoblocs with SMPS but could not use them because the owner had reduced the gain for use with his 112 db speakers.
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Old 10th October 2012, 10:51 AM   #5168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julf View Post
Wouldn't that be cruel to the chicken?
Justin Bieber? Yes, indeed.
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Old 10th October 2012, 10:57 AM   #5169
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Originally Posted by Erlend Sæterdal View Post
Linear supply and we had two monoblocs with SMPS but could not use them because the owner had reduced the gain for use with his 112 db speakers.
Too bad... A comparison would be nice.
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Old 10th October 2012, 11:00 AM   #5170
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The one with SMPS supply get very very hot.
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