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Old 9th October 2012, 08:50 PM   #5151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StigErik View Post
There is nothing to hear above 20 kHz. That was my point. The Ultra Tweeters product is bogus, simple as that.
Does it necessarily need any signal above human hearing from the source to work? There are other ways to introduce ultra frequency content.

You probably misunderstand the function of the product entirely.

Basic audio physics knowhow would tell you that ultrasonics influence the directivity of lower frequency signals. If you actually read the product info at all, you would probably have found out this yourself, but why bugger, nothing above 20kHz can possibly influence anything of interest, right?

Again, this is a case of applying the wrong "physical model", or "theoretical framing" to the phenomenon and then stating that it therefore cannot possible work and thus must be bogus.

Enjoy the crusade of misinterpret and wrongly applied "theory"

cheers

Last edited by Juhleren; 9th October 2012 at 09:08 PM.
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Old 9th October 2012, 09:01 PM   #5152
redjr is offline redjr  United States
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Originally Posted by barrows View Post
It is my preference to follow Class 2 construction standards, and not connect the AC ground. Hypex also recommends this approach in the nC400 literature. The SMPS600 is protected from catastorphic failure by a fuse. And I will be sure that the wiring is secure. Additionally, with a non-metallic enclosure, there is much less risk of shorts if a wire did fail somehow.
There are quite a few commercial high end audio companies, using metal enclosures even, who do not connect the AC ground at all.
In any case this is my choice... and I fully understand the potential risks. Remember, I am talking about a non-conductive enclosure here.

No answers to my question?
Understand. Class 2 grounding requirements are different.
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Old 9th October 2012, 09:25 PM   #5153
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Originally Posted by Juhleren View Post
There are other ways to introduce ultra frequency content.
It's called a "microwave oven", and it will fry your brain.
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Old 9th October 2012, 09:36 PM   #5154
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Originally Posted by StigErik View Post
It's called a "microwave oven", and it will fry your brain.
That is of course on the premise that there is one to begin with
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Old 10th October 2012, 05:33 AM   #5155
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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Originally Posted by Juhleren View Post
That is of course on the premise that there is one to begin with
Sorry, but how is your crusade helpful to people who are using, or want to use hypex ncore modules?

I know, I know... "Don't feed the trolls"...
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Old 10th October 2012, 07:17 AM   #5156
Goto is offline Goto  United Kingdom
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Ultrasonic is the word used to define "sound above the upper limit of human hearing".

I guess you might be able smell it, or feel it, but we are an audiocentric community (Clue's in the community title) so we can dismiss it.

Juhleren, I have some invisible trousers that would suit you very nicely sir!
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Old 10th October 2012, 07:23 AM   #5157
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Originally Posted by Julf View Post
Sorry, but how is your crusade helpful to people who are using, or want to use hypex ncore modules?

I know, I know... "Don't feed the trolls"...
Julf, you donīt have to excuse.
You are right that my "crusade" is not meant for people in general that are using or consider to use ncore, and therefore does not help them. Hypex ncore is a splendid product and I have no intention to claim otherwise.

What on the other hand tricked me (again -and sorry for that), is the way many practice a tendency of misinterpreting and misapplying theoretical knowledge to disregard what they donīt understand. This is what tricks me, and if your point is that i wont reach them anyway, then you are probably right, so rest with it. I will.

best,
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Old 10th October 2012, 07:38 AM   #5158
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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Originally Posted by Juhleren View Post
What on the other hand tricked me (again -and sorry for that), is the way many practice a tendency of misinterpreting and misapplying theoretical knowledge to disregard what they donīt understand.
Juhleren, I understand where you are coming from - and yes, I do see what you were saying about the ultrasonics not being directly audible, but perhaps influencing the sound. It's just that many of us believe in the good old principle of "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". Thus claims that go beyond normal everyday physics do require solid proof to be accepted - that's just how science and engineering works. It is OK to say "well, it's not quite that simple", but that has to be followed up by a good, solid and proven model and explanation for why not. Just saying "there is more to it than we know" is not enough.

Anyway, this has very little to do with ncores, so let's get back on track...
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Old 10th October 2012, 07:44 AM   #5159
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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Originally Posted by Goto View Post
Ultrasonic is the word used to define "sound above the upper limit of human hearing".

I guess you might be able smell it, or feel it, but we are an audiocentric community (Clue's in the community title) so we can dismiss it.
While I agree with disagreeing with Juhleren , I think you are doing it on somewhat flippant terms - reality is always slightly more complex.

Wikipedia: Sound from ultrasound

Now, I agree that has nothing to do with ncores or the argument at hand, but it does show that being overly simplistic is not necessarily helpful.
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Old 10th October 2012, 08:15 AM   #5160
Goto is offline Goto  United Kingdom
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Originally Posted by Julf View Post
While I agree with disagreeing with Juhleren , I think you are doing it on somewhat flippant terms - reality is always slightly more complex.

Wikipedia: Sound from ultrasound

Now, I agree that has nothing to do with ncores or the argument at hand, but it does show that being overly simplistic is not necessarily helpful.
Julf

I am aware that it is both possible to generate ultrasonic waves and that there are transducers that ar capable of reproducing them. In lab conditions, with the equipment in use, we might even experience it in some way. However, the audio recording process is bandlimited in every scenario I can think of. In the old days the speed that you could pass the tape over the recording head, the size and density of the magnetic particles and the physical gap in the tape head itself were the limiting factor. In modern digital systems the sample rate sets the limit and those are all engineered to a known basic standard which is the upper limit of human hearing. There is no recognised requirement in any of this engineering design to reproduce ultrasonic components, so not only is there little margin in the professional systems to record above the limit of audibility, there is often a strong requirement to filter out ulstrasonic spurriae to limit energy dissipation and stabilise eletronic systems.

I am prone to a flippant remark, and I mean nothing by it, but, whether or not ultrasonic signals exist in the source material or not, the chances of them getting through the filters (from the microphone all the way through to our own ears) are pretty much zero. And that's the key point from a rational understanding - a filter is not selective, it will smooth out any signal, and will attenuate all frequencies outside its passband to a degree proportional to the extent such a signal exceeds the designed upper or lower limit. So, even if the source produces ultrasonic overtones, they will get attenuated at every filter step in the recording and reproduction chain.

My own upper limit is about 15khz and will only get worse as I age. I'd rather spend my audio pennies improving the performance of the system within the range I can hear because that's ALL I can hear! Reproducing the ultrasonic harmonic products of cymbals won't be audible to me, no matter how faithfully my system might reproduce them.
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