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Old 30th August 2012, 10:52 AM   #4991
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell Dawkins View Post
I imagine this can only be related to damping factor associated with the ultra low output impedance.
I, for one, think "speed"can be an appropriate term to describe bass quality - especially associated with settling behaviour of the entire system as a function of damping factor, motor and cone power to weight ratio, and resonant environment of driver, box and room.

Most systems make square waves barely recognizable.
how would you then quantify og qualify "speed" in bass?

Donīt you mean "damping" or "control" instead?
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Old 30th August 2012, 04:07 PM   #4992
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I think damping is one characteristic of control. Another is simply the speed of reaction to an input signal which is neatly displayed by the square wave produced (the measurement of which is limited by the impulse response of the microphone, unfortunately).

As to quantifying or qualifying; I guess the rise time and settling time could be easily quantified. Good measurement microphones are sufficiently faster than bass drivers and systems not to present much distortion of results.
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Old 30th August 2012, 06:09 PM   #4993
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell Dawkins View Post
I think damping is one characteristic of control. Another is simply the speed of reaction to an input signal which is neatly displayed by the square wave produced (the measurement of which is limited by the impulse response of the microphone, unfortunately).

As to quantifying or qualifying; I guess the rise time and settling time could be easily quantified. Good measurement microphones are sufficiently faster than bass drivers and systems not to present much distortion of results.
If you by "speed of reaction to an input" mean acceleration I think I do get what you mean. Audio Technology has specīed their drivers "theoretical acceleration factor" for years. This number simply corresponds to the ratio between the driversī BL and mms.

This is however strongly tied to the potential bandwidth of the (theoretical perfect) driver. By convention the "speed" of a driver refers to its useful bandwidth. As you get near the limit of drivers bandwidth two main things will occur making drivers less "perfect".

1 The reactance of the vc will limit the ability of the driving current to change direction (limiting HF).

2 The cone will stop being pistonic basically meaning that the cone canīt keep up with the vc as one piece but instead bend in different modes.

Another thing is power compression if the signal heats the coil enough to make a significant impact on the impedance.

However, this is what could happen if the driver is used full range.

Due to that we do talk about "woofers", some kind of LP filter must be considered too. Usually a low pass filter is employed to limit the "speed" of the woofer so that the wooferīs inherent limitations are avoided as much as possible.

This basically means that a larger coil (in a passive configuration) limits the driving currentīs ability to alter direction more than either wooferīs cone or vc will. In an active filter it is the ability of voltage to alter direction instead.

If you have a signal that changes "faster" than the intended operational bandwidth of the woofer, another driver should take over responding to the signal. Otherwise the woofer is run full range, which is a different configuration
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Old 30th August 2012, 06:23 PM   #4994
Julf is online now Julf  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell Dawkins View Post
Another is simply the speed of reaction to an input signal which is neatly displayed by the square wave produced
Any square wave reproduced by most speakers doesn't resemble a square wave at all due to frequency response and phase shift issues. Have a look at a square wave where the harmonics have been phase shifted or unevenly attenuated/amplified - it really doesn't look like a square wave any more.

The graphical (visual) shape of a square wave tells us very little. The spectral and temporal analysis of it does.
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Old 30th August 2012, 07:46 PM   #4995
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damping factor is out of the question.

the b&O 1000ASP have a damping factor of 5000 and is worse than all

the amps i mentioned.

i have a sunfire 7401 with df 150 and its equally good to the ucd2k(df800)

reading all your posts the most possible reason is low distortion.

actually i am thinking that the harmonics of a kick drum can maybe

extend to 1khz.

i would like to hear from stigerik when he was experimenting if he tried

to use ncore for the woofers and ucd 400 for the ribbons and if yes

if he did notice better bass with full ncore.

this would show as if the harmonics have part at the perceived

bass "speed"
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Old 30th August 2012, 09:20 PM   #4996
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Question. When I power on /off my 5 channel nCore there is a "tic" over my 5 speakers. The power on / off works with a trigger from Pre. It "tics" also when I mute my Pre (Marantz AV7005). It's all connected with Hypex XLR. I guess it must be in the Pre. In the testconfig I used a Logitech Squeezebox over cinch and there was no tic. Anyone any idea? Thanks!

Grtz Audioschipper

Last edited by Audioschipper; 30th August 2012 at 09:27 PM. Reason: Not complete
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Old 30th August 2012, 09:27 PM   #4997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by back View Post
i would like to hear from stigerik when he was experimenting if he tried to use ncore for the woofers and ucd 400 for the ribbons and if yes if he did notice better bass with full ncore.
Never tested that, sorry.

As an other poster said earlier in this thread, the quality difference between other amps and Ncore was most noticeable in the upper bass range. I would say 100-200 Hz.
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Old 31st August 2012, 05:38 AM   #4998
back is offline back  Greece
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Originally Posted by StigErik View Post
Never tested that, sorry.

As an other poster said earlier in this thread, the quality difference between other amps and Ncore was most noticeable in the upper bass range. I would say 100-200 Hz.

have you sold all your ucd?
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Old 31st August 2012, 07:15 AM   #4999
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Still have them ...
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Old 31st August 2012, 08:56 AM   #5000
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Originally Posted by StigErik View Post
Still have them ...
Letīs hit the 5000 posts mark for this monster thread!

Do we smell an experiment coming, StigErik ?

Itīs been around for a awhile that improvements in the treble will audible impact the bass too.

So it is not unlikely that UCDs on your ribbons will alter the perception of the bass although your woofer systems are unchanged.

Physically speaking, whatever signals that demand more acceleration than what your woofers are configured to produce rely on the ribbons, so whatever is meant by "leading edge" might rely more on the HP section than the LP

Last edited by Juhleren; 31st August 2012 at 09:03 AM.
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