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Old 20th July 2012, 01:59 PM   #4841
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Default yes...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtwrace View Post
We were speaking about warmup not break-in.
Yes, I do think that I addressed that in my post, but to be more clear:

If the sonic changes I experienced during break in were related to the electrolytic caps forming (as I suspect) then it is reasonable to assume that there will be some level of forming that will need to happen everytime the voltage is taken away from the caps. If you have the amps cold, depending for how long, the caps will start to go backwards, and will require some amount of re-forming on power up.
How audible this will be is unknown by me at this point, and would also likely depend on how long the amps are powered down. I have not had the modules here long enough to get a feeling for this, but it seems that some here have not noticed any change with initial break in as well?
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Old 20th July 2012, 02:05 PM   #4842
jtwrace is offline jtwrace  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrows View Post
Yes, I do think that I addressed that in my post, but to be more clear:

If the sonic changes I experienced during break in were related to the electrolytic caps forming (as I suspect) then it is reasonable to assume that there will be some level of forming that will need to happen everytime the voltage is taken away from the caps. If you have the amps cold, depending for how long, the caps will start to go backwards, and will require some amount of re-forming on power up.
How audible this will be is unknown by me at this point, and would also likely depend on how long the amps are powered down. I have not had the modules here long enough to get a feeling for this, but it seems that some here have not noticed any change with initial break in as well?
Understood.

I'm not a big believer in break in for audio equipment but did think that it took ~6 hrs for them to settle down. It sounds crazy I know but after putting a few pairs together and testing them this is what I found.

YMMV
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Old 20th July 2012, 02:47 PM   #4843
Studley is offline Studley  United Kingdom
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Jason
I've ordered the ncore modules based on all the great reports I've read from users. This is a leap of faith for me as I really like Class A amps and particularly ones designed by Nelson Pass (I currently have a pair of First Watt F4s). I've never heard the Claytons you had so I'm wondering (a) if you have heard any of Pass's amps and if so how the Claytons compared and (b) have your ncores usurped the Claytons?
cheers
ian
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Old 20th July 2012, 02:48 PM   #4844
jtwrace is offline jtwrace  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Studley View Post
Jason
I've ordered the ncore modules based on all the great reports I've read from users. This is a leap of faith for me as I really like Class A amps and particularly ones designed by Nelson Pass (I currently have a pair of First Watt F4s). I've never heard the Claytons you had so I'm wondering (a) if you have heard any of Pass's amps and if so how the Claytons compared and (b) have your ncores usurped the Claytons?
cheers
ian
Yes, I owned the Pass Labs X-1 along with an X-250 before my Claytons which the NCores have replaced.

I had the Claytons for 7 yrs. First M-200's then M-300's.
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Old 20th July 2012, 03:28 PM   #4845
badman is offline badman  United States
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Not to go too far off topic, but the phenomenon of breakin is often largely the listener breaking in, not the component.
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Old 20th July 2012, 03:28 PM   #4846
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Default on break in...

Changes in ESR of electrolytic caps have been measured, so no "voodoo" required to understand why it might matter. Not that I do not believe in other break in factors as well, but capacitor forming is a well established, phsyical, measurable, reality.

Impressive that you prefer the nCores over the Claytons, so far I am not sure where I stand versus my Pass X 150.5, there is more low level detail with the nCores, but the tonality of cymbals, bells, etc "seems" to be lacking-to be fair, this is with the modules just sitting out in the open, no case, non-idealised wiring, etc. so I am not drawing any conclusions yet.
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Old 20th July 2012, 04:58 PM   #4847
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badman View Post
Not to go too far off topic, but the phenomenon of breakin is often largely the listener breaking in, not the component.
Certainly could be the case soemtimes, but not in this situation. The reference (and reference system) was a known quantity, already broken in. Comparisons between the nCore and the reference amp were made, and those comparisons changed as the nCores changed.
I was formerly employed by a high end audio manufacturer, and part of my position involved listening tests of prototype components, I am pretty well versed in making these kinds of comparisons.
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Old 20th July 2012, 04:59 PM   #4848
Studley is offline Studley  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtwrace View Post
Yes, I owned the Pass Labs X-1 along with an X-250 before my Claytons which the NCores have replaced.

I had the Claytons for 7 yrs. First M-200's then M-300's.
So I guess you preferred the Claytons to the x250. Reassuring that someone who is clearly not prone to changing equipment every time a new fad comes along has been won over by the ncores.
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Old 20th July 2012, 07:54 PM   #4849
3lviz is offline 3lviz  Finland
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How exactly and with what tools did you de-solder the R141?

I have now tried three times and it just won't budge. First i tried just quickly with a cheap 10€ solder iron, not a change. Then i tried with the same iron heating it like half an hour with closed windows etc, no go.

Well, now i bought a proper 100w solder station (Xytronic LF-2000), and tried with 480 celsius temperature. Still no go! This time, I just managed to add little bubbles of solder to the resistor that was on the iron tip.

Well, i did not heat the part for very long, just for 10 seconds max or so. It's almost like the part was welded instead of soldered. Should i just heat the part for longer time? I would not like to break anything. Is the patch of nCores i got using some extra tough solder?
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Old 20th July 2012, 08:01 PM   #4850
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Flood the entire resistor with solder core, and it should come off right away.
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