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Old 29th June 2012, 01:54 PM   #4631
akasha is offline akasha  Denmark
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Anyhow that's why I decided I actually wanted the NC400 to have this unvarnished, dead-pan delivery.[/QUOTE]

It's perfect,
can help thinking: you hear the character of whatever equipment you put in front, so stunningly clear, that it's own sonic character is more "invisible" than anything else comes to mind, truly letting even wide open emotional musical events trough like a "massless acoustic magnifying glass"

Thanks!
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Old 29th June 2012, 02:46 PM   #4632
Omholt is offline Omholt  Norway
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StigErik View Post
I'm very glad that you did...!!
Me too. When you have an active speaker system, the less character the amp has, the more control you are of the sound. Personally I don't want an amp to decide how it sounds.

So please bring the DLCP along. MiniDSP seem to have an head start now.
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Old 29th June 2012, 03:01 PM   #4633
jtwrace is offline jtwrace  United States
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Originally Posted by Omholt View Post
So please bring the DLCP along.
+1
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Old 29th June 2012, 03:13 PM   #4634
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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Originally Posted by jtwrace View Post
+1
+2
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Old 29th June 2012, 03:14 PM   #4635
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Originally Posted by Bruno Putzeys View Post
Thx Bill for the feedback.



Anyhow that's why I decided I actually wanted the NC400 to have this unvarnished, dead-pan delivery.
Please keep doing it this way!!! If I want to add "flavor" to my system I just add another device to do just that, a tube stage in the tape loop for example..

DLCP +3
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Last edited by Mark.Clappers; 29th June 2012 at 03:19 PM.
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Old 29th June 2012, 03:18 PM   #4636
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Originally Posted by Bruno Putzeys View Post
One of the tricks a Mac does by design is to have a highish output impedance (because of the autoformer) which makes for a more liquid mid-range sound and then to add a subjective sense of bass control by allowing a slight THD rise in the top end.
The output impedance affects the reactive load control and makes the Q go up as well as the low end level.
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Old 29th June 2012, 07:43 PM   #4637
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If I got the autoformer working principle on the output of an amp right, then just looking at it as a bit of resistance that destroys the damping factor isnīt quite getting the "whole picture".

Adding some resistance to an amp like the ncore would cause a rise in the Qes on connected speakers and affect the roll off as people claim.

The bass would probably get meatier but also slower and less articulate. But it wouldnīt provide more grip, nor more actual punch or weight from my humble experience. (tried on a few class D and class AB amps)

A resistor on the output can soften and lighten the sound if the amp is a little rough, "unrefined", or "locked in", and can "subjectively" improve on the perceived flow in the music (which is why Naim does it).
- Didnīt work well on the class D amps Iīve tried where the sound turned somewhat grey and flat.

What on the other hand could account for more grip, weight, and punch is more reactive power from the output coil in the autoformer. Though its output impedance might be a few 100 mOhm, the output inductance of the MAC 501 could explain why it has some guts behind when it kicks the cones around and why it can present a "stronger" bass than the Ncore that has magnitudes better damping factor and "theoretical control".

In power supply the merits of good chokes (adding a lot of inductance) in the right places is well known to do wonders to the performance regarding grip and power in the music. The improved ripple rejection may moreover be a welcome side effect

Admittedly I havenīt played around with autoformers myself, but it could be quite interesting to hear what a good one could do on the output of the ncore.

One for Bruno, if I may:
- Does the SMPS600 deploy chokes only in the aux supplies (and/or for the driver), or also on the output supplies?

Best,
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Old 29th June 2012, 07:48 PM   #4638
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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What on the other hand could account for more grip, weight, and punch is more reactive power from the output coil in the autoformer.
Can you please explain the term "reactive power"?
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Old 29th June 2012, 08:37 PM   #4639
badman is offline badman  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StigErik View Post
Ontopic:

I've noticed an other very nice side of the Ncore's sound (or lack thereof)...

There are lots of recordings that are not polished to sound pretty on everything (like most so-called "audiophile" recordings are). In other words, a lot of recordings may sound harsh, "shouting" or grainy. But wait... the Ncore's fabulous resolution manages to dissolve such recordings into its real content instead of just presenting it as one big lump of dirt.

I guarantee you that some will complain about this, mistaking midrange "shout" for dynamics. Which is utterly wrong of course.
This is something I've noticed with speaker improvements- even cheap pop MP3s (older pop but still garbage recordings) tend to have significant elements masked by all but very excellent systems. The resolution allows you to listen past the flaws, which somehow seem sequestered audibly.
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Old 29th June 2012, 09:21 PM   #4640
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Originally Posted by Julf View Post
Can you please explain the term "reactive power"?
I can try, but I canīt guarantee any explanatory power

In AC systems where loads can be reactive or capacitive, voltage and current can be out of phase to each other. Only a pure resistive load will have voltage and current to change direction simultaneously.

In systems that are not "pure resistive", Real power accounts for the consumed power and Reactive power for the potential that moves but isnīt consumed. Complex power or Apparent power is the vector sum of real and reactive power.
(That reactive power isnīt "consumed" does not mean that the "moving around" tendency of Reactive power isnīt causing additional stress to the system, and it will to some degree be wasted as heat due to resistance in the system)

Reactive power is probably best understood as an energy potential caused by phase shifts between voltage and current in AC systems.

Capacitors and inductors "consume" and "generate" reactive power in opposite phase to each other as they "store" reactive energy under AC conditions.

My thought was that the output inductance thus cause some reactive power (due to the signal being AC) that affect the dynamic working conditions of both the amp driving the autoformers "input" side and the speaker being driven by its "output" side.

I may have gotten it wrong, but merely accounting for the resistance of a coil in an AC system seems to be a too limited account for assessing the dynamic behavior of the system.

The dynamic properties of having reactive power in terms of an autoformer in the system should matter somehow on the AC properties of the system. If not anything else, then on the conditions under which power is distributed between amp output and speaker.

You can read from those who are better at explaining these things than me on:
AC power - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
What is reactive power

Hope that made sense
Best,

Last edited by Juhleren; 29th June 2012 at 09:28 PM.
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