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Old 15th June 2012, 07:15 PM   #4431
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Old 15th June 2012, 07:37 PM   #4432
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pieter t View Post
The SMPS600 is switch mode, but unregulated

Datasheet:
Note 3: Output voltage is proportional to the mains line voltage (Min@180Vac, Typical@230Vac,
Max@264Vac).
I disagree. The output voltage is proportional to mains line voltage, but not influenced by output current (as it would with an unregulated linear supply). I am sure you noticed that only the aux voltage is described as "unregulated".
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Old 15th June 2012, 07:58 PM   #4433
AP2 is online now AP2  Italy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julf View Post
I disagree. The output voltage is proportional to mains line voltage, but not influenced by output current (as it would with an unregulated linear supply). I am sure you noticed that only the aux voltage is described as "unregulated".
Hi,
This may also be interesting to others, please can you explain why it is dependent on the AC main and not by the load?
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Old 15th June 2012, 11:10 PM   #4434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julf View Post
Great looking power supply, but I would hate to see a compact, efficient amp such as nCore saddled with a huge, bulky, inefficient unregulated PS...
Julf, what do you mean by "inefficient" linear supplies?

Do you mean according to size/weight ?
or power consumption at idle or different loads?

It seems to be something that is usually claimed around here, but I would like to know the origin of this claim.

SMPS´s usually appear to waste more power and dissipates more heat than comparable unregulated linear power supplies.

You can typically increase efficiency by going for a linear PS over a SMPS on a class D amp...

My ICEpower based AR ear two for example is spec´ed to be around 93% total efficiency (both amp modules and linear supply) whereas its SMPS variant only reaches some 86% as i remember.

This will probably depend on the used SMPS. Apparently the Hypex SMPS400 is spec´ed with much lower idle losses than the SMPS600.

I think it is something like 2W for the prior vs 5W for the later

I dunno the reason for why the SMPS600 should waste more energy, but it does make me curious...

-Are they spec´ed on similar terms?

cheers,
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Old 16th June 2012, 02:16 AM   #4435
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Since a regulated PS has rail voltage held constant by an active circuit, it is basically an amp driving an amp. It really sucks power, but should improve amp performance of an AB amp a fair amount. But with the extreme (85dB) PSRR of ncore it seems a waste, I expect gaining less than 1dB in any performance measurement. For the Hypex SMPS they warn against larger filter capacitance than what is provided: I expect it's because an instability could arise, from the greater inductance of more caps, or maybe the problem is a current limit, I dunno. It makes me wonder whether using a big ncore to supply another ncore is feasible, or a recipe for a loud bang.

Last edited by Sam Lord; 16th June 2012 at 02:25 AM.
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Old 16th June 2012, 06:23 AM   #4436
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AP2 View Post
Hi,
This may also be interesting to others, please can you explain why it is dependent on the AC main and not by the load?
It is my understanding (I might be wrong, hopefully the Hypex guys will correct me) that the SMPS600 works on a constant ratio of input to output voltage, but uses switching pulse ratio to regulate the power supplied to the load depending on current draw. Thus it is a regulated supply.
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Old 16th June 2012, 06:27 AM   #4437
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juhleren View Post
Julf, what do you mean by "inefficient" linear supplies?
Size and weight are one obvious inefficiency.

Power consumption is a slightly complicated matter. A totally non-regulated supply (basically transformer, rectifier bridge(s) and capacitors) is not inefficient, but it is also totally unregulated, reacting to fluctuations in load by a voltage drop (and increase in ripple).

A linear regulated power supply is highly inefficient in terms of electrical and thermal inefficiency, as it has to dissipate a lot of the power in the regulating element.
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Old 16th June 2012, 09:19 AM   #4438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pieter t View Post
SMPS180 is unregulated as well (only regulated AUX supplies).
I asked about this a few hundred pages ago. Bruno replied that the SMPS180 is regulated. The fact that you can adjust the output voltage, and that outout voltage does not change all too much with load indicates that it is regulated.....

My question:
hypex ncore

Bruno's answer:
hypex ncore
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Old 16th June 2012, 09:47 AM   #4439
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StigErik View Post
I asked about this a few hundred pages ago. Bruno replied that the SMPS180 is regulated. The fact that you can adjust the output voltage, and that outout voltage does not change all too much with load indicates that it is regulated.....

My question:
hypex ncore

Bruno's answer:
hypex ncore
What is a regulated power supply?
IMO constant output voltage with varying input voltage, right?
Then take a close look at the SMPS180 datasheet.
You will see specified that the unregulated aux output voltage is derived directly from Vcc and Vee (note 5), so it is apparent (at least to me) that the SMPS180 is an unregulated supply.
With respect to what we regard being regulated supplies, I state that all Hypex SMPS's are unregulated.
Bruno's remark that power supply current is "well regulated with respect to load" has nothing to do with this, and actually misleading as a reply to the question about regulation.
Any high quality unregulated supply will be able to supply the necessary current under differing loads (at the cost of more or less voltage sag), but when speaking of regulated power supplies we mean voltage, not current.

Last edited by pieter t; 16th June 2012 at 09:52 AM.
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Old 16th June 2012, 09:50 AM   #4440
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The SMPS180 has a PFC input, due to this PFC regulating the output voltage is regulated. It's not a full regulated SMPS. For sonic reason there is no advantage to have a regulated SMPS, for constisten power ratings it has a big advantage.
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