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Old 24th May 2012, 12:57 PM   #4151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StigErik View Post
However, when I switched to Ncore amps for my OB woofers, the whole thing changed. Its amazing how much better the Ncore is in the bass range than other amps I've tried (including UcD 400 HG), especially when it comes to transient "attack", overall clarity and control.

( are we back ontopic again now perhaps..? )
Transient attack and clarity are hallmarks of OB sound, and I don't question that also the Ncore excels in that regard, but overcoming the acoustical limitations of OB bass is a different matter IMO, and it would be the first time for an amplifier to rewrite the laws of physics .
But yes, better go back on topic now.
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Old 24th May 2012, 06:07 PM   #4152
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Originally Posted by StigErik View Post
I found the same thing too, and I almost wanted to accept that OB's could not give the same bass "impact" as boxed woofers, because OB's dont pressurize the room.....

However, when I switched to Ncore amps for my OB woofers, the whole thing changed. Its amazing how much better the Ncore is in the bass range than other amps I've tried (including UcD 400 HG), especially when it comes to transient "attack", overall clarity and control.

( are we back ontopic again now perhaps..? )
Could it be that the very high damping factor plays a more important role for OB woofers than boxed (acoustically suspended or resonant) ones?
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Old 24th May 2012, 06:51 PM   #4153
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Could it be that the very high damping factor plays a more important role for OB woofers than boxed (acoustically suspended or resonant) ones?
Low damping factor, but massive, no, *insane* cancellation by our good and constant friend, wave superposition. It's fine if you have lots of baffle distance separating the fronts of drivers from the backs. Baffles matter...

Last edited by Sam Lord; 24th May 2012 at 07:04 PM. Reason: baffling
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Old 24th May 2012, 07:29 PM   #4154
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Originally Posted by pos View Post
Could it be that the very high damping factor plays a more important role for OB woofers than boxed (acoustically suspended or resonant) ones?
You also obtain much more modulation distortion due increased cone travel for the same output at low frequencies compared to the same woofer in a box.

Wonder how just two of Erik´s woofers would sound in a well designed bass reflex enclosure (which so very few really masters).
- I bet it would be out of this world in rooms that can handle it
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Old 24th May 2012, 08:23 PM   #4155
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Well, we are OT again. I've had closed box and bass reflex woofers of many kinds, they were all vastly inferior in sound quality compared to any OB I've ever heard. The main reason is how they behave in the room. But the penalty you pay is very very very low efficiency....

I don't think amplifier quality or damping factor is more important with OB's, but the lower coloration of OB's probably makes it easier to hear the difference in sound quality between amps.
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Old 24th May 2012, 08:26 PM   #4156
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I love categorial absolutes like that. But I have to ask - as you have decided class D is not for you, and you knew from the start that nCore is a class D amp, why are you reading and participating in this thread?



Right. In what parallel universe does increasing amp output impedance and decreasing damping factor make bass "tighter"? Maybe you should just try with longer speaker cables? 50 m might give you *really* tight bass....
You just do not want to understand what I want with the 0,1 ohm. You have a short memory to. The N Core was never for me.
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Old 24th May 2012, 08:43 PM   #4157
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Originally Posted by Erlend Sæterdal View Post
You just do not want to understand what I want with the 0,1 ohm. You have a short memory to. The N Core was never for me.
Why don't you open your own thread about what you are (trying to) explain, since it has virtually nothing to do with Ncore....
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Old 24th May 2012, 10:23 PM   #4158
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Originally Posted by StigErik View Post
Well, we are OT again. I've had closed box and bass reflex woofers of many kinds, they were all vastly inferior in sound quality compared to any OB I've ever heard. The main reason is how they behave in the room. But the penalty you pay is very very very low efficiency....
Sorry about that, I was harsh but mostly to discourage builders from taking your design of OB bass *before* exhausting the vastly simpler and cheaper alternatives. You obviously know what your system does and why, and the details are appreciated. I view it as important experimentation at the extreme of bass design.

Here's my project, FWIW:

I have a pair of very good small monitors (ATC20SL passives) waiting to replace some good but worn-out 2-way minitowers. I plan to buy a couple of Velodyne DD10+ or DD12+ powered subs. I'll have heavy (~20Kg) stone slabs made with the same footprint as the ATCs to act as bases. So, from top to bottom: ATCs, ultra-thin patches of blu-tack or silicone, slab maybe 3" thick, aboiut 1/2" thick sorbothane or heavy foam pad, subwoofer cabinet, Sound Anchor stand, and finally spikes, or bolts which the lock the stand to the floor. I want to strongly isolate the monitors from the subs in the face of the stacked mount.

The ATCs, like all 2-way speakers, are time-coherent along a specific plane. Fortunately that plane for these monitors (mounted vertically) is very close to horizontal. The subs and stand could switch places, but I want all the drivers close. That's a tradeoff, maybe a poor one, since floor reflection will compete with the higher subs' direct radiation; I'll think it over. The stands are custom-made so I'll have to choose the final arrangement before building. The room is narrow and untreated. FWIW, I expect those Velodynes to achieve as low distortion, but *only* in direct radiation, not accounting for the room reflections, as Stig's system...

Here's an area where I differ from the mainstream: I believe that if a rectangular room has reasonable dimensions for audio, ie something not too far from golden ratio LxWxH, then the quality of speakers vastly outweigh room considerations. This assumes speakers are well-placed and also achieve for time coherence at the listening position, AS WELL AS being not-far-from time coherent for first reflections for all of the walls. The ceiling and floor reflections are casualties except in the case of horizontal driver mounting. The need for front- and back-wall coherence is the reason I advocate little or no toe-in on most systems.

OK, back on topic , I have a pair of Bel Canto S300Es which I intend to vertically biamp. I wish that high-end preamps came with parallel outputs for this to avoid kludgy cable terminations, but never mind. I would like to replace them with ncores biamped the same way. I'd like to hear others' thoughts on cables for the ncores...

Cheers

Last edited by Sam Lord; 24th May 2012 at 10:45 PM.
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Old 25th May 2012, 06:00 AM   #4159
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Originally Posted by Erlend Sæterdal View Post
You just do not want to understand what I want with the 0,1 ohm. You have a short memory to. The N Core was never for me.
Then do remind me. But please, in a private message or in a separate thread. It is clear the nCore was never for you - the only thing unclear is why you keep posting in this thread. Unless you are on of these guys:



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Old 25th May 2012, 06:58 AM   #4160
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Julf.

(About the not-very-threatening Trolls)

At the first glance I thought that was an illustration by Kay Nielsen. I don't know the work of John Bauer.
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