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Old 20th April 2012, 08:32 AM   #3721
ds23man is offline ds23man  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erlend Sæterdal View Post
Earlier I always went for accurate reproduction. The problem is that only few recordings is accurate and worth to hear.. I prefer a little bit of colouration lately. This do not affect my capability to hear differences.
You can better try some tube gear
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Old 20th April 2012, 08:34 AM   #3722
ds23man is offline ds23man  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erlend Sæterdal View Post
Much better speakers and cables.
Ha, can you tell what type of gear Bruno uses?????
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Old 20th April 2012, 08:44 AM   #3723
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ds23man View Post
Ha, can you tell what type of gear Bruno uses?????
I just know mine MUST be way better. He cannot even hear differences between different kind of gain setting resistors.

Do you think because he do not hear differences than nobody else can ?
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Old 20th April 2012, 09:06 AM   #3724
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I think there are some misconceptions - or at least some implicit and very subjective assumptions - at play here...

Regarding double blindfoldedness, it seems that the implicit logic -not explicitly argued fore, but assumed to be the only (objective) truth - is that (good) musical replay necessarily is a science /and therefore has to be judged that way too.

These assumptions only give rise to an endless stream of questions; why should it necessarily be be conceived as a science? Will it make us happier to listen to something that is scientific? What is real science, then? Is science necessarily purely objective (just name one that really is...)? Why is subjectivity considered to be bad? What is objectivity? Can we ever be really objective?

Julf, subjectiveness and belief /yes, but I assume that you know that, that index finger points in both directions. If your subjective idea is that a certain way of trying to be objective is the true path, then great for you, but that is also nevertheless subjective...

Regarding the reported difference between using one or two smps600s for two ncores, it was reported in this very thread, so i suggest you to use the search function (sorry but this seems to be the standard answer that people for some reason i dont understand, prefer).

Subjective test/result, yes, of course -I would never argue differently, and should we trust any report, - of course not! /But claiming to be objective /if that is what you are trying to do - is basically just a misconception and at least as much a subject to belief...

I hope that people actually know that double blind tests are not considered the holy grail by all sciences... And claiming that one science should be more -true- than the other is to enter deep, deep water. But what the heck, its just audio, so lets claim anything, right?...

Remember that good -scientific - method is to account for all aspects of experiments. As this is practically impossible (I did MEAN everything), the important reduction is to account for what is necessary to be able to conclude what is claimed. I - believe - that double blind tests typically are so different from our normal listening conditions that they should not be mixed up with them, nor be believed to be -better - or - more true -.

They are just different, and that may have a lot to say about how listeners are able or not to interpret what they hear. After all what our hearing picks up as vibrations is subject to heavy interpretation by the brain to make sense of it as sound, language, music...
/listening is something we learn - and under certain conditions within which our training in interpreting what we hear is better developed.

Bouble blind tests are of course useful, but remember how they measure and thereby what they do and do not measure - and that is different from most domestic usage, would be my humble guess

cheers
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Old 20th April 2012, 09:09 AM   #3725
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julf View Post
Well, yes, but here we get to the age-old philosophical debate of "accurate reproduction" vs "sounds good".
I have heard loads of different systems, I visited loads of live classical music performances in different music halls. To me it's quite clear how music reproduction should sound. My current system comes close to what I think is good sound. If the recording is "harsh" it sounds "harsch", if the recording sounds "thin" it sounds "thin", if the recording sounds "warm" it sounds warm. It doesn't come close to live concert hall performance and a reproduction system never will. But it's very good. My system shows very easy the difference in sound quality between different sorts of resistors on the tube output stage of the DAC for example. But I don't want to convince other people to do anything, I will listen to it myself (for longer period of time!), change something, listen again for longer period of time and choose what I like more and what I THINK is better.

Erlend is right, loads of bad recordings gives you the thought about "tuning" the system to a more "forgiving" sort of sound....
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Old 20th April 2012, 09:11 AM   #3726
Omholt is offline Omholt  Norway
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It has been said from Hypex that a linear supply will color the sound a bit. SMPS is more transparent. Taking this into consideration, it's not a surprise that in some setups the linear could sound better. This has as much to do with the speaker response and acoustics as taste or placebo.
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Old 20th April 2012, 09:15 AM   #3727
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Old 20th April 2012, 09:17 AM   #3728
ChrisPa is offline ChrisPa  United Kingdom
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everyone - do we really need another diversion into subjective vs. objective, and double, triple, quadruple blind testing. We can read every other thread on the board if we want that

everything that the ncore is good/better at is down below what convention defines as the 'threshold of audibility'
every comment posted here on the 'sound' of the ncores is inherently obviously and rightly subjective

So can we simply read and interpret any comments on the sound of the ncore in that way

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julf View Post
I don't know for sure, but it appears that hypex only makes the nc400 in batches based on pre-orders, so that might never have them "in stock", to be ordered off the shelf. But that is pure speculation on my part.
I see absolutely no evidence for this in Hypex's trading model. They've just been extremely fortunate with the popularity of the ncore. All manufacturing starts with small batches - if problems are spotted in early batches you don't want to have to rework large quantities of stock

Apart from nc400 and smps600 does the rest of the hypex shop look like it runs on preorder? It doesn't to me



Quote:
Originally Posted by ds23man View Post
I think Bruno made a remark somewhere that he could not hear or measure any differences! So how the hell you can????
Ah, so only Bruno has golden ears?
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Old 20th April 2012, 09:19 AM   #3729
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+1
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Old 20th April 2012, 09:30 AM   #3730
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Verhoeven View Post
Erlend is right, loads of bad recordings gives you the thought about "tuning" the system to a more "forgiving" sort of sound....
I dont agree. More *true* transparency in the playback chain will always sound better, and enable you to hear the music and take focus away from recording artefacts and so-called "errors". Even Queen albums are listenable on my very transparent system!
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