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Old 16th January 2012, 10:39 AM   #1621
matjans is offline matjans  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonkara View Post
So 325 € plus taxes for a module is a fair price ,isn't it ? And not $$$$$ ....
I agree with you they're not cheap. But, as StigErik mentioned, everything is relative and though not cheap, the specifications are excellent. I think you'd be hard pressed finding anything similar to the ncore's for less than their price (in consumer market, which is the "realm" we're talking about).

Apart from marketing and pricing strategy, the ncore modules will in all probability be more expensive to manufacture than the standard ucd modules, and all time invested in a project will need to be made good, including the time Bruno spends here on the board (I can;t imagine he's here only for fun if you see the number of hypex/bruno/ucd bashing posts)

As I am working in the IT service industry, the following, service oriented, diagram is something that has haunted me for years now. I know there are ways to "escape" from it. Maybe not 100% applicable to "products", but you get the general idea.

Any 2 will combine, never 3.

Click the image to open in full size.

And in addition to that, if they'd go on sale for 40 bucks apiece, no one would buy it, "that can;t be true, not for that kind of money".
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Last edited by matjans; 16th January 2012 at 10:42 AM.
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Old 16th January 2012, 10:50 AM   #1622
matjans is offline matjans  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Francois K View Post
Also some work to be done on the finish which I'm not entirely satisfied with.
i've always liked (hard) anodizing, gives it a rugged look. Depending on the type of aluminium you're using of course.
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Old 16th January 2012, 11:20 AM   #1623
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Bumping my previous post;

"Can I use the balanced outs from legato which has common mode DC bias to balanced input on the ncore without using AC coupling caps?"

Does anyone know if this is safe? My legato has about 8 VDC from - and + to GRND on the balanced outs. There is no VDC between - and +.
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Old 16th January 2012, 11:40 AM   #1624
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matjans View Post
I agree with you they're not cheap. But, as StigErik mentioned, everything is relative and though not cheap, the specifications are excellent. I think you'd be hard pressed finding anything similar to the ncore's for less than their price (in consumer market, which is the "realm" we're talking about).

Apart from marketing and pricing strategy, the ncore modules will in all probability be more expensive to manufacture than the standard ucd modules, and all time invested in a project will need to be made good, including the time Bruno spends here on the board (I can;t imagine he's here only for fun if you see the number of hypex/bruno/ucd bashing posts)

As I am working in the IT service industry, the following, service oriented, diagram is something that has haunted me for years now. I know there are ways to "escape" from it. Maybe not 100% applicable to "products", but you get the general idea.

Any 2 will combine, never 3.

Click the image to open in full size.

And in addition to that, if they'd go on sale for 40 bucks apiece, no one would buy it, "that can;t be true, not for that kind of money".
Matjans, its like the iron law of speakers; you can get two of the following three characteristics: small size, high efficiency, or large bandwidth. Go low in a small box means you gotta feed it with a lot of juice; hence big IS good

That said, i think that the market will tell if the price point is right. Very few businesses are actually basing their price policy on the actual production costs, and why should they?
Innovation is to find new ways of combining things to make them offer better "value" than what was possible before. Who should benefit from this? -everybody of course. The innovator will benefit from combining parts that produce a better value than what others can offer. Users pay for the competitive "value" they get though a product, not the parts. Putting expensive parts together to produce something of less "value" is of course not good business and will therefore typically be short lived...

325 Euro´s + tax for a bunch of components is much, but for the performance they promise it seems very fair. Compared to the price for a UCD400 HXR or UCD700 HXR, the nc400 seems to be better value IMHO

Last edited by Juhleren; 16th January 2012 at 11:43 AM.
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Old 16th January 2012, 11:42 AM   #1625
UKPD is offline UKPD  United Kingdom
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Try using + and - without the gnd connection, that's what I've done with Legato feeding UCD 180 HG. No problems even with low R loads like ribbons.

Regards
Peter.
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Old 16th January 2012, 11:47 AM   #1626
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UKPD View Post
Try using + and - without the gnd connection, that's what I've done with Legato feeding UCD 180 HG. No problems even with low R loads like ribbons.

Regards
Peter.
Alright, thanks!
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Old 16th January 2012, 12:00 PM   #1627
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Bruno's know-how is unique in the Class D field and I'm happy to pay for that.
There are not many people around who can reach this level of performance with switching amplifiers.

That's IMHO the main reason why people of the "high end" industry fight Bruno and Class D in general. All those Class A/AB experts out there (including engineers and "engineers"-salesmen) simply can't compete and they're certainly not happy to have more competition or have their know-how appear as "outdated".

It's hard to teach an "old dog" new tricks and even harder to make him perform these tricks better than the "new dog".
So the only option is to buy the know-how. But instead of having to pay royalties to Bruno, Zetex or whomever (and having to come up with ways to differentiate your product from others using the same tech, having to justify the asking price etc.), it's much easier to guide your sheep to believe "Class D is not good enough yet so, yeah, all those people with the tiny, high power, low consumption, amplifiers are actually compromising sound quality".

If someone could make a better class D than NCore and then say "see, I can make it but it's not good enough for me. I'd rather build/use/sell *this* Class A/AB amp instead", I'd be all ears.

Last edited by TheShaman; 16th January 2012 at 12:21 PM.
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Old 16th January 2012, 12:31 PM   #1628
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonkara View Post
Ha .Is it a myth then ?
No myth, no stock

Quote:
Originally Posted by matjans View Post
i've always liked (hard) anodizing, gives it a rugged look. Depending on the type of aluminium you're using of course.
I agree Matjans. It is also more practical. But, that said, the texture on the bare aluminium cylinder looks very nice at the moment. I'll clear anodize this prototype just to see what it looks like.
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Old 16th January 2012, 01:08 PM   #1629
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Francois, I agree with matjans, your proto type looks great!
It makes me think of the musical fidelity "wine bottle" offerings some 10 years ago where they had a whole product line in round cylindrical cabinets. Great idea!

cheers,
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Old 16th January 2012, 01:35 PM   #1630
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juhleren View Post
Francois, I agree with matjans, your proto type looks great!
It makes me think of the musical fidelity "wine bottle" offerings some 10 years ago where they had a whole product line in round cylindrical cabinets. Great idea!

cheers,
Thank you very much Juhleren. Being around the Stellenbosch Winelands might have "assisted" with the design, subconsciously! But on a more serious note, the internals (should) fit quite nicely. The orientation of the ncore module is quite obvious, SMPS closest to front. The internals currently in production consist of isolated compartments with channels for the wires.
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