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Old 18th June 2011, 05:26 PM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclecamper View Post
My home system previously utilized 30,000 watts of theoretic power amp
it's good to get input from all different angles. With all due respect, I'd have to say you're in an extra high power minority
That is an impressive sounding setup though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by goosewing View Post
a deal where you provide the modules AND work with them on the design to produce a real state of the art amp that is actually properly engineered.
that seems like a good idea. The main issue I see with Bruno & team creating a "productized" amp on their own is the distribution and marketing. Marketing may not be a big deal (Hypex has a certain amount of brand recognition already), but distribution can be troublesome. If they have some plans to overcome that then by all means make a nice statement amp.

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Originally Posted by cab View Post
What I wonder is how much modules sold to DIYers would cut into the market served by high end $$$ amp manufacturers in the first place?
I don't think it would cut into the market much. I think the issue is simply one of perception that their product is different from "off the shelf" (DIY is a niche, so I doubt their very worried about it cutting into their sales, just of how it affects their marketing spiel)

oops, here we are again conjecturing about Bruno's mareting plans. I guess we were supposed to get back to the DIY ncore wishlist.

oh! Bruno, if hypex make an adapter plate available, how about a right angle bracket/plate for higher density vertical mounting off of a heatsink or chassis?
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Old 18th June 2011, 06:28 PM   #132
cab is offline cab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eclectic2k View Post
I don't think it would cut into the market much. I think the issue is simply one of perception that their product is different from "off the shelf" (DIY is a niche, so I doubt their very worried about it cutting into their sales, just of how it affects their marketing spiel)
Look at how amp manufactures already differentiate their products-I have no doubt they would continue in the same fashion- proprietary inputs, wiring, noise suppression, dampening, shielding, "secret circuits", proprietary "improvements"...take a look at what the ice power users have done....I am sure it would be more of the same.
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Old 18th June 2011, 09:09 PM   #133
asbjbo is offline asbjbo  Norway
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Congratulations to Bruno and the Hypex crew on the NCore amps! The data sheet is extremely impressive. I have UcD700AD, UcD400AD, and UcD180HG monoblocks already. It is hard to imagine an amplifier with ten times better specs than those.

It seems that the vote on power level for a DIY NCore already is converging, but I'd like to add a vote for the "small" side. I'm building a pair of speakers with fairly high sensitivities, so I reckon I just need 5 W for the tweeters, 50 W for the midranges, and some 200 W for the basses (8 ohm wattages). I'd like to build a compact chassis with six channels of amplification at suitable power levels and one or two SMPSs, and the thought of using something like the NCore for the mid and tweeter channels seems very attractive.

The distortion levels are already so low that it perhaps makes no difference, but I also look for where in the power range the distortion is the lowest. It seems to make sense for that point to be at or below the average power level in normal use. The UcD400HG has its lowest distortion around 0.4 - 0.5 W. That seems very reasonable to me, but I wouldn't mind it being at even lower power levels.
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Old 18th June 2011, 09:30 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by asbjbo View Post
The distortion levels are already so low that it perhaps makes no difference, but I also look for where in the power range the distortion is the lowest. It seems to make sense for that point to be at or below the average power level in normal use. The UcD400HG has its lowest distortion around 0.4 - 0.5 W. That seems very reasonable to me, but I wouldn't mind it being at even lower power levels.
You might be looking at noise addition to the signal below 0.5 W instead of actual distortion. 0.02% THD+N at 10 milliwatts is -74 dB, or about -120 dB from full power, so that could easily be noise.
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Old 19th June 2011, 08:44 AM   #135
back is online now back  Greece
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if the ΟΕΜ nc1200 will have jumpers for the input buffer like ucd OEM a good idea

would be the offering of a standalone discrete buffer so we power hungry diyers

could buy an OEM module and add the buffer.

i use a pair a ucd2k`s with 1kva per channel for my speakers and receive better total

results from my ucd700hg + hxr because of my speakers high power demand.

with easier to drive speakers ucd700 sound cleaner.

Last edited by back; 19th June 2011 at 09:11 AM.
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Old 19th June 2011, 09:34 AM   #136
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A quick random smattering of replies:

*It took me some time to get the SMPS400 where it is now. Low conducted EMI is really important for sound. Caps are Korean.

*ExtremA does one thing well: demonstrate that people who have been designing class A amplifiers with highish distortion figures for the past 30 years really have got something to explain... It went straight from inspiration to hardware without spending much quality time inside a cranium. Even before it was finished I caught myself thinking "I really should've done a class (A)B with a high order global loop".

*Mind the word "selected" in the Ncore announcement. We will not agree to sell Ncore to any clown who then goes and applies "philosophy" to it and mucks up the design. If the end product isn't one we'd be proud of, no modules will change hands. Of course we have to compensate for this rigidity and show flexibility elsewhere. Reasonable requests for customisation will be honoured, for instance. They'll get exactly what they want, with the exact parts they want (provided it's technically sensible), and they can even have their name on it. It's not only we who want to think of the product as "ours, and proudly so", the same has to go for the customer. This may exclude a lot of potential buyers but so much the better for those who are serious about their stuff.

*R/A mounting bracket, note taken. I'm off to the UK for a few days, when I'm back I'll list what features we've discussed so far.

Last edited by Bruno Putzeys; 19th June 2011 at 09:55 AM.
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Old 19th June 2011, 02:03 PM   #137
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Bruno -

I realize that the high-end world provides you with some cash. My Quad rebuilds do the same thing. But for many of us in the DIY community and for lots of potential people off the street, the world of "high end audio" as perceived by $1000 power cords and simple gain stages costing as much as an Mercedes, is a joke. High-End audio manufacturers and the audio magazines (The Aboslute Sound, I'm looking at you here) have no-one to blame by themselves. The reviewers never call the manufacturers to task for outrageously priced designs. IE "If you had better engineers could you have gotten the same performance for a fraction of the cost?"

At the end of the day, you have to do what makes your company profitable and what makes you happy. (For me it was keeping an enjoyable day job and do the audio thing as a hobby) I hope you continue to offer your modules to individuals and hobbyists like myself, but I'd understand if you sacrificed the hobby market a bit to make sure you have a solid manufacturer base.

Good luck, and thanks for sharing your good designs with us.

Sheldon
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Old 19th June 2011, 03:17 PM   #138
asbjbo is offline asbjbo  Norway
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSP_Geek View Post
You might be looking at noise addition to the signal below 0.5 W instead of actual distortion. 0.02% THD+N at 10 milliwatts is -74 dB, or about -120 dB from full power, so that could easily be noise.
Could be, but the UcD400 datasheet graph I was looking at is labeled "THD", not "THD+N". I don't know the technology well enough to be sure, but it might be related to output transistor switching. It is just second and third harmonic at 120 - 130 dB below a 1 W signal in the NC1200 measurements, and nowhere near audibility, but I'd be even more interested in a Ncore version that is optimized for average power levels in the 10 - 50 milliwatt range and peaks at 50 W into 8 ohms.

A minority view, I'm sure.
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Old 19th June 2011, 03:52 PM   #139
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@asbjbo, All our graphs are THD+N, so when the graph goes up towards the low end that really means you're looking at noise. It's just because THD+N is expressed relative to the signal level that you get a graph that slopes down. If you graphed absolute THD+N in volts instead of percents you'd just see it level out into the noise floor. Actual distortion keeps going down as signal levels drop, there's no optimum. Other than noise, THD at 50mW is completely off the scale. Actually, the higher the rated output power, the lower the THD at 50mW.

@stokessd, Other than not putting out a wide range of modules I don't think we're sacrificing DIY. I think with the current plans for the DIY module you won't call it sacrifice either once it's done
Since you ask, what would make me happy? To be able to walk round something like the AES fair and see my amps hidden in products everywhere. A kind of "touching everybody's life" thing. Well, what would REALLY make me happy at the moment is if my wife finally got her residence permit so she could come and join me here. But apart from that I mean

Really off now, gotta catch a plane.
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Old 19th June 2011, 08:43 PM   #140
gwikse is offline gwikse  Norway
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This looks like my next amplifier.

I had a Ucd400HG with SMPS 67V. In my new setup I will need a neutral amp.
I would get as much power as possible at a reasonable cost. From where I`m standing a high-end version of Ucd400HG seems like the best option.

I had the 400HG mounted sideways to be able to expand to more modules for active filtering or surround.

One of the things that I would love to see is all connections at the edge of the board (so that angled pcb connectors like Neutrik NC3MD-Hcan be used).
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