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Old 15th January 2013, 04:01 AM   #351
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Location: toronto
I bought 170v from him in January from EBay and they arrived a week later
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Old 8th February 2013, 09:59 PM   #352
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Default ESD Safe Handling Packaging?

A friend over in New Zealand just bought some 2SK170 and 2SK369 FETS off this guy.

The FETs are genuine, but NO ESD Safe Packaging was used, the parts were just wrapped up in plastic bubble wrap.

The ESD labelling on the TOSHIBA boxes isn't there because they just wanted to print something in a blank space...

What gives? Everyone knows JFETS and MOSFETs are very, very, very sensitive to ESD, and that handling precautions are really, really important!

The problem with ESD damage to semiconductors is that it can take months for the damage to appear.

Over time your low noise JFETs are no longer low noise. And eventually fail - bugger

I was thinking of buying some too, but now I'm having second thoughts!
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Old 8th February 2013, 10:14 PM   #353
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Default Cont'd ESD Packaging

According to the Triboelectric scale, plastic (e.g. bubble wrap) and cardboard (paper)are the last two things you want to rub together...

The FEST come packaged on a paper tape and the bubble wrap rubbing against them will generate a great amount of voltage

I just got these photos from my mate of the packaging used: It's very poor by industry standards...

Please Mr Fang invest in some ESD safe handling procedures and ship your parts in "proper" ESD Safe packaging!

That way you''ll save us all a lot of hair pulling when we are trying to figure out why our input stage(s) have gone noisy...

Thanks.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 2SK170-1.jpg (105.1 KB, 455 views)
File Type: jpg 2SK170-2.jpg (111.9 KB, 449 views)

Last edited by Celestial; 8th February 2013 at 10:32 PM.
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Old 8th February 2013, 10:18 PM   #354
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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well, you are not flying to the moon with these, so it may not be that serious...is it

I just keep mine away from the PC screen etc

and remember to water my hands before handling them
but could still take days before they are solder properly and connected ground
yet they seem pretty tough
I have put one through all sorts of 'mishandling'
many times I thought 'that was that, its gone, lost'
but its still working
I find it hard to believe they are so fragile
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Old 8th February 2013, 10:28 PM   #355
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Default ESD Precautions

It's serious, I want my circuit to work or fail because of my design, not because some part is at fault.

I also want to know if I blew up my circuit because of bad circuit design not because some ESD damaged part goofed me up!

I take it when you ask a question like "..it can't be that serious..." you come from non Electrical Engineering background?

I had ESD safe handling and precautions drummed into me all through University and then at the company I work now, you can get fired for not complying with the ESD handling procedures and policies...


With ESD damage you can spend hours trying to figure out why things aren't working.
Bad ESD handling practices cost a company I used to work for AUD100k's due to re-work, lost customers etc.

I'd love to hear you put that question to someone in the industry?

If you want to know more about ESD, check out the ESD Journal. Yes a whole journal focused on ESD safe handling and packaging: ESD Journal - Home

If you want to know more about "TRIBOELECTRICICATION": see attached
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File Type: pdf TRIBOELECTRICICATION-1.pdf (86.4 KB, 17 views)

Last edited by Celestial; 8th February 2013 at 10:40 PM.
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Old 8th February 2013, 10:31 PM   #356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinitus View Post
well, you are not flying to the moon with these, so it may not be that serious...is ite
Ignorance is bliss, until it hits you in the face at 100 Mph.

ESD is real, and companies spend millions of dollars on setting up safe ESD working environments...it's no laughing matter
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Old 8th February 2013, 10:36 PM   #357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinitus View Post
well, you are not flying to the moon with these, so it may not be that serious...is it
You might find the attached helpful in understanding ESD.

While the training doc focuses on CCDs, the same principles are valid for any semiconductor device, especially IGBTs, MOSFETs, JFETs, BJTs etc, etc etc

Often you can ESD damage a device and you don't even know it, the human body only starts to feel ESD when the voltage gets around 2.5 kV. At 100V or more, you have wrecked most JFETs if you have touched them and been charged up at the time.
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File Type: pdf ESDsafetyDonna08Mar2010 (1).pdf (682.5 KB, 10 views)

Last edited by Celestial; 8th February 2013 at 10:44 PM.
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Old 8th February 2013, 10:52 PM   #358
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Default Toshiba's "Handling Guide for Semiconductor Devices,"

For reference, here's Toshiba's "Handling Guide for Semiconductor Devices"

TOSHIBA made the 2SK170 and 2SK369

This comes form their data book on FET and BJTs etc

For some lighter reading on the topic check out: http://www.radio-electronics.com/inf...ronics-esd.php
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Toshiba Handling Guide for Semiconductor Devices.pdf (462.4 KB, 22 views)

Last edited by Celestial; 8th February 2013 at 10:56 PM.
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Old 8th February 2013, 11:11 PM   #359
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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your life doesnt depend on it
but if you produced medical equipment it might

or perhaps if you were about to produce hundreds of units to sell all over the world
and your company would depend on it
then yes

but honestly, this is a hobby, and we are doing it for fun, or whatever it is
if it fails it fails, so what

ok, basicly you are right, ofcourse
but in reality, how many here have the right equipment anyway
earth wrist wire, safety floor matt, secured solder station, etc

not to forget, you are just yourself, and able to control your own environment
in production you have many people running around, doing all sorts of things
a quite different situation that needs more rules, and precautions
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Old 8th February 2013, 11:14 PM   #360
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Static free bubble wrap is pink and easy to find. So why not?
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