Increase of the distance is likely to be the cause of the sonic improvement.
I am going to try this:
- First wrap a layer of cotton (old cloth ok)
- Then copper foil tape all around
- Use a copper wire, naked on one side in contact with the copper, affixed with more copper tape so that it does not move, to connect the shield, the other side connected to where the electrical ground goes to the chassis
- aluminium foil (optional)
- more cotton and then teflon tape
Anyone seen these, they look like a rip-off of the Nord: Hypex NC500 Based Class D Amplifier Apollon Audio NC800 SL | Hypex Based Class D Digital Handbuilt Amplifiers Only Using Highest Quality Material
I just reading the Stereo Magazine #14 and...
Stereo Magazine issue #14/2018 pages 38, 39 and 40.
Marantz PM-10 with 2+2 Hypex NC500OEM. Only € 8000.
The SNR at 1 watt is about 80 dB
Stereo Magazine issue #14/2018 pages 38, 39 and 40.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Marantz PM-10 with 2+2 Hypex NC500OEM. Only € 8000.
The SNR at 1 watt is about 80 dB
Rambling mode on.
I am a bit surprised that they can get such a bad measurement (80Db SNR at 1W?) and so little power out of two NC500OEM per channel. Bridging two NC500OEM will give you up to 800W on 8 Ohm, and a staggering 1400W on 4Ohm, with a suitable power supply. However, they measure continuous power, so this may be the reason they do not show higher numbers. Also, the price of 8000EUR seems to be two times too high for the components, even with a "Marantz" logo in front, hence it is mostly determined by placement. Another reason for the use of the NC500 pairs in place of a single NC1200 per channel can be a hypex price policy (I read years ago on 6moons that a NC1200 stereo amp had to have a minimum cost USD 10K, no idea what current minimum prices are, so if Marantz wanted to undercut that, they could not use the NC1200). Ok, also a lot of machined aluminium and copper bottom and back (which is the best in cases), but still... I am not 100% sure why it uses a linear power supply with a transformer, but at least, looking at it, it has inductances in the power supply. Almost no-one does that, I have just seen some High-end 200W class A monoblocks at the HiEnd Munich 2018 fair, and these had no inductances in the power supply. So the linear power supply may be responsible for the increased noise level.
Rambling mode off.
In the meantime I am very satisfied with my Apollon NC500 based monoblocks. They took ages to burn in - like all Class D things - but after about 400 hours of active amplification (i.e. I also attached 8.4Ohm/50W resistors to the binding posts and let it run during the night at very high volume for several nights), the sound has become eerily natural and transparent. The stage is wide, tall, and deep, with good placement of sound sources with a clear size and some air between them. Great layering. Bass control is excellent. The piano is extremely good, and I guess it is not perfect only because my loudspeakers are not made by Wolf von Langa (absolutely the best piano and cello reproduction I have ever heard).
The amps themselves are absolutely silent with the Sonic Imagery 994 opamps and the only noise you can hear with the Sparkos SS3602 is if you nearly glue your ears to the tweeters and have a da*n good hearing in a very silent environment. The sound is absolutely realistic, rich of detail. Transients are precise, and they are in exactly the same place as the instrument generating them (listen to a clarinet and the sound of its keys...)
Mind you this is already quite close to the best you can get in general purpose audio amplification, regardless of price, unless you can afford a Lamborghini. The sound difference between NC500 and NC1200 based amps (if both are properly designed) is in general noticeable only if you need more power on very difficult loads and esp in the bass range (at least, according to hypex folks I met at the HiEnd fair) And two of the (in my opinion) five best sounding hifi setups at the HiEnd and HifiDeluxe fairs in Munich used NC1200 based monoblocks (Mola Mola). Only the all FM Acoustics set up was clearly a step above, but look at the prices (and that's why I mentioned the Lamborghini). Other set-ups excelled by exploiting some special synergy (such as 300B-based amps driving enormous AER horns, or Von Schweikert Ultra 11 towers with VAC amps).
In other words, at these levels, unless you have a niche setup (102Db/W horns, say, or have a huge listening environment), there is no real need to spend more. Maybe a bit more for even better opamps, but that's it. Invest the savings in the loudspeakers.
Roberto
I am a bit surprised that they can get such a bad measurement (80Db SNR at 1W?) and so little power out of two NC500OEM per channel. Bridging two NC500OEM will give you up to 800W on 8 Ohm, and a staggering 1400W on 4Ohm, with a suitable power supply. However, they measure continuous power, so this may be the reason they do not show higher numbers. Also, the price of 8000EUR seems to be two times too high for the components, even with a "Marantz" logo in front, hence it is mostly determined by placement. Another reason for the use of the NC500 pairs in place of a single NC1200 per channel can be a hypex price policy (I read years ago on 6moons that a NC1200 stereo amp had to have a minimum cost USD 10K, no idea what current minimum prices are, so if Marantz wanted to undercut that, they could not use the NC1200). Ok, also a lot of machined aluminium and copper bottom and back (which is the best in cases), but still... I am not 100% sure why it uses a linear power supply with a transformer, but at least, looking at it, it has inductances in the power supply. Almost no-one does that, I have just seen some High-end 200W class A monoblocks at the HiEnd Munich 2018 fair, and these had no inductances in the power supply. So the linear power supply may be responsible for the increased noise level.
Rambling mode off.
In the meantime I am very satisfied with my Apollon NC500 based monoblocks. They took ages to burn in - like all Class D things - but after about 400 hours of active amplification (i.e. I also attached 8.4Ohm/50W resistors to the binding posts and let it run during the night at very high volume for several nights), the sound has become eerily natural and transparent. The stage is wide, tall, and deep, with good placement of sound sources with a clear size and some air between them. Great layering. Bass control is excellent. The piano is extremely good, and I guess it is not perfect only because my loudspeakers are not made by Wolf von Langa (absolutely the best piano and cello reproduction I have ever heard).
The amps themselves are absolutely silent with the Sonic Imagery 994 opamps and the only noise you can hear with the Sparkos SS3602 is if you nearly glue your ears to the tweeters and have a da*n good hearing in a very silent environment. The sound is absolutely realistic, rich of detail. Transients are precise, and they are in exactly the same place as the instrument generating them (listen to a clarinet and the sound of its keys...)
Mind you this is already quite close to the best you can get in general purpose audio amplification, regardless of price, unless you can afford a Lamborghini. The sound difference between NC500 and NC1200 based amps (if both are properly designed) is in general noticeable only if you need more power on very difficult loads and esp in the bass range (at least, according to hypex folks I met at the HiEnd fair) And two of the (in my opinion) five best sounding hifi setups at the HiEnd and HifiDeluxe fairs in Munich used NC1200 based monoblocks (Mola Mola). Only the all FM Acoustics set up was clearly a step above, but look at the prices (and that's why I mentioned the Lamborghini). Other set-ups excelled by exploiting some special synergy (such as 300B-based amps driving enormous AER horns, or Von Schweikert Ultra 11 towers with VAC amps).
In other words, at these levels, unless you have a niche setup (102Db/W horns, say, or have a huge listening environment), there is no real need to spend more. Maybe a bit more for even better opamps, but that's it. Invest the savings in the loudspeakers.
Roberto
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Ok, with a bit of copy and paste from another reply.
I own two Apollon NC500 based monoblocks and I am very satisfied with them. They are by far the best amps I have had in my system (I have had a little Naim NAC 32.5/Hicap/NAP 140 combination, then Abrahamsen, could audition Teddy Pardo i80 and Lavardin IS, and a few more).
I do not think that they deserve to be called Nord ripoffs. There have been hypex based amps with custom buffers way before Nord did it, and Nord used a design shared on diyaudio by Richard Doporto (I believe this is the family name) of Sonic Imagery. Also, Apollon are not using the same board. They are different products. This is following, not ripping off.
If you look at the internal layout of the monoblocks, it is different, with the power supply placed in order to minimise EM interference. This is a better design. it is true that the same Italian MODU cases are used, but they are very practical, of decent quality, and not too expensive, so they are a good choice. Apollon is using the optional internal second bottom made of steel, so not only you do not have screws on the bottom, but this adds another 1 mm of steel to protect the components from EM/RFI. The buffer board has a better placement (more space around the opamp and a larger distance of the regulators from the opamp, to reduce overheating - these things can get very hot) which to the very least should guarantee longer life. I have been told that the values of the components are different as well: they ensure a higher input impedance (so the amp should be easier to drive). The resistors and capacitors look to me to be of higher quality as well.
There products are going to differentiate themselves on these details, because they will all have the same amplification board, the same main switching PSU, and superficially similar input buffers. But such details can matter - they mattered to me when I started looking for this type of amplifier and looking at Apollon swayed me from going the Hattor route (they are beautiful though).
Also, I trust the craft of a sound and recording engineer with hands-on experience over that of a carpenter (i.e. excellent speaker kit builder) or case manufacturers.
Roberto
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My Electrocompaniet AW3x120M sounded better then the 1200AS2 I have.
But.... I do like the sound of the AS and with the benefit of the auto sensing turn on and off and the much much much lower power requirement.
I do think I made a good choice in switching.
Actually now that I have this auto turn and off I think I never want to go without anymore
Never heard the NC500, very curious what the difference would be.
But.... I do like the sound of the AS and with the benefit of the auto sensing turn on and off and the much much much lower power requirement.
I do think I made a good choice in switching.
Actually now that I have this auto turn and off I think I never want to go without anymore
Never heard the NC500, very curious what the difference would be.
The more important question to me is, with very good records, do you get excited more times than before?
One thing is a very good sound, spectacular and other that you feel emotion. For example, that prevents you from sitting and you have to get up and lead the orchestra. Or that you feel the need to get on a tank and invade Europe like me:
How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
One thing is a very good sound, spectacular and other that you feel emotion. For example, that prevents you from sitting and you have to get up and lead the orchestra. Or that you feel the need to get on a tank and invade Europe like me:
How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
Electrocompaniet - AW 3X120-M - Discontinued
I am very interesting with the IcePower 1200AS2 but I have a doubt about the output phase and I am waiting for them to respond to my second email once the Munich fair is over.
Phase shift in class D amplifiers. How it affects the sound?
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Mocenigo, a very important question, again:
Do you connect the class D modules in your powerstrip wih Schaffner RF/EMI filter and two DC Blockers inside? Better or worse sound?
Two stages, I suspect is too much. I think is better try first with only one stage like Schaffner RF/EMI FN 9244B filter inlet.
Apollon Audio and Rouge Audio Design sell the IcePower 1200AS2 with cheap chinese RF/EMI filter.
B: medical
Do you connect the class D modules in your powerstrip wih Schaffner RF/EMI filter and two DC Blockers inside? Better or worse sound?
Two stages, I suspect is too much. I think is better try first with only one stage like Schaffner RF/EMI FN 9244B filter inlet.
Apollon Audio and Rouge Audio Design sell the IcePower 1200AS2 with cheap chinese RF/EMI filter.
B: medical
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No change I can actually discern. Keep in mind that I use a 16A one so problem here, and the DC blockers are intrinsically in parallel not in series with the current. So I keep everything connected to my powerstrip for "peace of mind". Everybody blasts switching PSUs, but they must be inductive for various reasons, and inductive filtering is very very good at killing noise from the PSU itself and from outside. The noise spewed out can be another matter, but since now (except for the headphone amp) I have everything with SMPS or not connected in any way to the audio signal path, I do not think I have problems.
I know that Rouge Audio Design puts RF/EMI filters, but I am not sure about Apollon. All products of which I could find a picture show no added RF/EMI filters, so I would be surprised if they added one. The NC500 monoblocks sure do not have them.
Roberto
Mostly audiophile superstition based on cheap phone chargers.
I do remember Bruno advising pretty strongly against pi- or T-type filters (as they destroy the isolation between mains and chassis ground).
@Julf
Your question better in the thread: Phase shift in class D amplifiers. How it affects the sound?
Your question better in the thread: Phase shift in class D amplifiers. How it affects the sound?
I agree. There are even small cell phone charger sized SMPS PSUs, like the iFi iPower, that are splendidly clean and perform audibly better than bulky linear PSUs (if used, for instance, for small DACs and raspberry's, which have external power supplies)
Indeed, never put something like this inside the chassis for mains isolation/filtering. They may be much higher. For the same reason I do not have them right before a component, of they would separate the components.
Bruno may be quite strongly opinionated, and often categorically so, but some of the things he wrote in "The G Word" should be in the bible of audiophiles, in particular regarding star grounding myths.
Roberto
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