Output transformer
Hi Soeren,
can you recommend values for an output transformer for either the dam1021 or dam1121? Maybe even an off-the-shelf model from Carnhill, Cinemag, Jensen, Sowter? And a recommended output circuit? ;-)
I'm going to build a 16 channel unit (at least, maybe 24) for mixing purposes, so balanced outputs at a level acceptable for studio use are needed. And people seem to sonically prefer the unbalanced outputs on the DAM1021.
Thanks!
Hi Soeren,
can you recommend values for an output transformer for either the dam1021 or dam1121? Maybe even an off-the-shelf model from Carnhill, Cinemag, Jensen, Sowter? And a recommended output circuit? ;-)
I'm going to build a 16 channel unit (at least, maybe 24) for mixing purposes, so balanced outputs at a level acceptable for studio use are needed. And people seem to sonically prefer the unbalanced outputs on the DAM1021.
Thanks!
Just curious... is it an analog mixing or digital? The DAC function - is that for the output (2 (5) channels) only or 16 DACs in the end of a DAV? Why would you play out so many analog channels? Confused...
I think that the preference for the output of DAM is not so much about bal/unbal but rather the OP-amp based output stage coming along with the conversion to balanced and stronger drive capability that the OP-amp provides. If you don't need that and are satisfied with unbal 600 omish output (using one board for 2 channels) or one board using both channels in balanced configuration, you might want to skip the color of that OPamp stage.
If you start with 2 volt 600 ohm you can up that voltage by a transformer but will lose current i.e. impedance so will that be really enough in a balanced 600 ohm mixing environment? Doubt it. But then again I didn't really understand the config.
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I think that the preference for the output of DAM is not so much about bal/unbal but rather the OP-amp based output stage coming along with the conversion to balanced and stronger drive capability that the OP-amp provides. If you don't need that and are satisfied with unbal 600 omish output (using one board for 2 channels) or one board using both channels in balanced configuration, you might want to skip the color of that OPamp stage.
If you start with 2 volt 600 ohm you can up that voltage by a transformer but will lose current i.e. impedance so will that be really enough in a balanced 600 ohm mixing environment? Doubt it. But then again I didn't really understand the config.
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Ciao,
Just a quick question. I had already assembled a Ver.1 later replaced by a Ver.2 board, I am absolutely in love what I am hearing for the last couple of years. However I am using it with a preamplifier (A Tortuga passive LDR module + a buffer) in order to drive both an amplifier and a subwoofer.
As I just received a ver.4 board, I was wondering if for this build instead of using a preamplifier it would make more sense to just use the digital volume of the board, use the raw output for the amplifier and the buffered output for the subwoofer. But I have no idea if both outputs can be used at the same time and if this makes any sense at all… thanks!
Just a quick question. I had already assembled a Ver.1 later replaced by a Ver.2 board, I am absolutely in love what I am hearing for the last couple of years. However I am using it with a preamplifier (A Tortuga passive LDR module + a buffer) in order to drive both an amplifier and a subwoofer.
As I just received a ver.4 board, I was wondering if for this build instead of using a preamplifier it would make more sense to just use the digital volume of the board, use the raw output for the amplifier and the buffered output for the subwoofer. But I have no idea if both outputs can be used at the same time and if this makes any sense at all… thanks!
so no impact on what is before - thats the whole point!Many thanks TNT. OK, for this build I will go the digital volume way.
On my earlier build I found that using the LDR module + JG buffer sounded better that the digital volume only, or was it my mind trying to justify the money spent? Later this year I will report back which of the 2 configurations sounds better for my taste. Bye!
On my earlier build I found that using the LDR module + JG buffer sounded better that the digital volume only, or was it my mind trying to justify the money spent? Later this year I will report back which of the 2 configurations sounds better for my taste. Bye!
You won't be able to get a balanced signal at studio levels and impedances with a passive transformer solution.
You will feel need for an active output stage for most applications, even though a lot of vintage 600 ohm studio equipment has so much gain, that you might get along with the unbuffered dam output level. Unbalanced it is, but with no consequences if the following input is transformer balanced....
I use the dam in a studio and to my ears the buffered output is not that bad...An average ssl console has much more and worse opamps in the signal chain and is still used in a professional recording environment.
You might also want to have a look at the buffer mod section at:
Mods | moreDAMfilters
... in case this is still relevant with the actual revision of the DAM.
Mods | moreDAMfilters
... in case this is still relevant with the actual revision of the DAM.
I’m not sure dam1021 are the best choice for multi-channel output DAC as you can’t sync them.
Mixing individual and completely isolated instruments will probably work out just fine with a few samples sync error. But let’s say you try to mix a multi microphone setup with spillover I would prefer to have all the DAC’s in sync. Soren do have other options with this feature.
Regarding color of op-amp vs transformers. The professional industry jumped to op-amps not only for cost reduction. The made the transition because of less coloration and all over better performance.
Not that I don't understand where you're coming from, but I would just build with the op-amp in place. Any coloration you do in the analog domain with the desk and dedicated effect chains or active suming box will overpower whatever color the op-amp now must have.
All soekris DAM and DAC products use the same filter file, the one on the soekris website, and can all be replaced with other filters. The dac1101 only have a 10 pins 2mm connector, the dac1321, dac1421 and dac1541 all have a clearly marked separate 3 pins connector.
It's an analog mixing console, of course. I need balanced connections to interface with the console as well as with outboard studio equipment.
Transformers don't sound neutral, but the coloration is usually of a euphonic, desireable kind. There are plenty of transformers in my mixing chain already anyway.
There are also lot's of monolytic op amps, but they have been carefully selected and implimented for a minimal sonic footprint. I am not so sure about the buffer stage of the DAM1021, judging from what people have written online, and from my own experience with op amps. Maybe shocking to High End Audio people I would prefer a 5532/5534 based output stage, these can be designed to sound transparent and musical, but I am not going to design circuits and PCBs myself here. Using an output transformer is keeping it simple IMO. But if the drive capabilities of the converter are not enough I guess I will try the DAM1021's built in output stage anyway.
They should be in sync, since they all get their signal from the same master clock via AES/EBU.
As for op amp coloration - in theory monolytic op amps are better, but practically it's not that simple to have them perform adequately. Transformers don't sound neutral, but - at least in a music production / mixing pro audio setup - their coloration tends to be non-objectionable or even desireable.
OK but I still don't understand how you use say 16 DAC channels in a mixer?
Do you go:
Mic - A/D-D/A-mixer-A/D-master? Or?
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Am I right that most if not all DIY filters of "Filter brewing for the Soekris R2R" are not DSD capable?
If that's not the case, is there a DSD capable filter collection for this DAC beyond the standard filters?
If that's not the case, is there a DSD capable filter collection for this DAC beyond the standard filters?
No, this is about mixing, not recording.Let's say I've got a 32-channel multitrack with drums, instruments, vocals and the like. These get routed out through 32 DAC channels, fed into console inputs (or, usually, through various outboard gear first and then into the console), in the console with added send / return effects and bus processing are mixed to a stereo track, this ist recorded back to the DAW.
Why to I mix in the analog domain? Because the sound is vastly supperior to ITB (in the box) mixing. IMHO at least.
I stand corrected. Went back and reread Søren’s post #6825. What he actually said was that the board do sync, but need a few uS before it locks to clock. Sorry for the FUD.