Exactly! This thread is getting full of comments with people complaining all the time... if you don't like it, then buy your R-2R dac else where.... oh wait, there is no else where, and if there was it would probably cost at least 5 times the price.....
I use currently the serial connection more frequently as I now "play" with the volume control over the serial connection.
When I power up the DAC the serial connection works fine (volume control, +++, uManger,...). But if I listen for a longer period without using the serial connection, the serial connection does not react any more, it is just dead.
Un- and re-plugging the USB adapter or opening a new serial connection does not bring it back to life. When I power down and up the DAC (Kabummm, Ploppp) then it works again.
I suppose it is that energy saving feature issue, although the specs of the used chipset in the USB adapter seem claim there is no such feature active on that side.
When I power up the DAC the serial connection works fine (volume control, +++, uManger,...). But if I listen for a longer period without using the serial connection, the serial connection does not react any more, it is just dead.
Un- and re-plugging the USB adapter or opening a new serial connection does not bring it back to life. When I power down and up the DAC (Kabummm, Ploppp) then it works again.
I suppose it is that energy saving feature issue, although the specs of the used chipset in the USB adapter seem claim there is no such feature active on that side.
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This is the exact same behaviour that I'm getting with my Arduino controller. I have tried fixing it by using the same RS-232 chip that the DAM is using, to minimise compatibility problems, but it does not improve the situation. I have decided to wait for Soren to enable the isolated serial port in hope that it will not exhibit the same strange behaviour.
DSD native issue
I second fmak;
I have a GUSTARTD X-10 here going to be throw it away for cheap auction.
Regarding to DSD native, I'm really disappointed to hear DAM wont support it.
Hmm......
>This is hardly a comparison. The Gustard is a so so dac.
>My reservations. Apart from the add-on delivery price compared to the >Twisted Pear offerings and something like the W4S DSDSe (I have both), I >don't want a board which does not support DSD native, has channels >reversed, and has not been tested to 384k. I don't want to have to flash with >unfamiliar tools either to update firmware.
I second fmak;
I have a GUSTARTD X-10 here going to be throw it away for cheap auction.
Regarding to DSD native, I'm really disappointed to hear DAM wont support it.
Hmm......
>This is hardly a comparison. The Gustard is a so so dac.
>My reservations. Apart from the add-on delivery price compared to the >Twisted Pear offerings and something like the W4S DSDSe (I have both), I >don't want a board which does not support DSD native, has channels >reversed, and has not been tested to 384k. I don't want to have to flash with >unfamiliar tools either to update firmware.
Maybe if we all stopped discussing it... those folks who are just here to complain without suggesting alternative routes to accomplish things will stop derailing the thread.
Maybe we're all so opinionated that we refuse to see the other side.
Maybe if we also spent time to read up we'd know why the DAM1021 is what it is.
DSD is a 1-bit delta-sigma modulated digital audio signal. The DAM1021 is a multi-bit DAC. So some form conversion has to happen to support both PCM and DSD without additional hardware/switches [read further back in the thread where Soren discussed this with xxxbugxxx]
So Soren's latest post is as best as he can do with Native DSD - at least with the current hardware... additionally, he never claimed to support DSD from the very start (so look at this as a bonus.. I do... it went from DoP to quasi-DSD Native because of this discussion so something good came out of it for me
) At the very least, this allows you to use your PCs to sample DSD data with the software SDM filters (SDM-B in Foobar SACD plugin for instance) before that data is streamed to the DAM1021. Your guess is as good as mine if the sound is any good.
FWIW... I don't believe anyone has problems running 384k... been able to run this (resampler variants in Foobar) since the first day the DAM1021 had a pulse.
Every device I've owned had to be updated with it's own proprietary software (and it's always initially foreign). So you're familiar with ALL the other update methods? If it's text-command line that is the issue, it is something that I can empathize with, but I got going with Dimdim's contributions, too. And frankly, I'm glad this DAC is so updateable.
The last thing before you dig it up.... before you start talking about theoretical bit-depth above noise floor of only ~21/22-bit... know that this problem also does not disappear if you spend another ~$14k... MSB Technology Platinum Data CD IV transport & Diamond DAC IV & D/A converter Measurements | Stereophile.com
Again, I'm going to support what MisterRogers has already stated... it is what it is. If it's not for you, it's not for you.
Peace.
Maybe we're all so opinionated that we refuse to see the other side.
Maybe if we also spent time to read up we'd know why the DAM1021 is what it is.
DSD is a 1-bit delta-sigma modulated digital audio signal. The DAM1021 is a multi-bit DAC. So some form conversion has to happen to support both PCM and DSD without additional hardware/switches [read further back in the thread where Soren discussed this with xxxbugxxx]
So Soren's latest post is as best as he can do with Native DSD - at least with the current hardware... additionally, he never claimed to support DSD from the very start (so look at this as a bonus.. I do... it went from DoP to quasi-DSD Native because of this discussion so something good came out of it for me
) At the very least, this allows you to use your PCs to sample DSD data with the software SDM filters (SDM-B in Foobar SACD plugin for instance) before that data is streamed to the DAM1021. Your guess is as good as mine if the sound is any good.FWIW... I don't believe anyone has problems running 384k... been able to run this (resampler variants in Foobar) since the first day the DAM1021 had a pulse.
Every device I've owned had to be updated with it's own proprietary software (and it's always initially foreign). So you're familiar with ALL the other update methods? If it's text-command line that is the issue, it is something that I can empathize with, but I got going with Dimdim's contributions, too. And frankly, I'm glad this DAC is so updateable.
The last thing before you dig it up.... before you start talking about theoretical bit-depth above noise floor of only ~21/22-bit... know that this problem also does not disappear if you spend another ~$14k... MSB Technology Platinum Data CD IV transport & Diamond DAC IV & D/A converter Measurements | Stereophile.com
Again, I'm going to support what MisterRogers has already stated... it is what it is. If it's not for you, it's not for you.
Peace.
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I read that request as the possibility to have software players handle DSD streams above 2x (DSD128) which is the limit with DoP. With the Amanero, you can possibly run up to DSD512 in native mode (of course in this case, this all eventually goes through how DAM1021 handles that stream in the backend - downsampled to 352k/384k? or 2.8MHz/3.1MHz?)
Edit: Actually your guess is as good as mine what debianx is looking for. I do believe in Japan there's a shop (that won't sell overseas
) a pure DSD solution if he's after pure DSD.
Yes it does... but why don't you check up the difference DSD sampling rates have on the dsd stream? The noise is significantly different from dsd64 when up sampled... having a better starting point before conversion to PCM can't be bad can it?
Anyways all moot until we are able to try.
Business not charity or digital education project
Guys,
Soren has designed this as a flexible and low cost R2R solution for Red Book and 24 bit higher sampling rate digital music, as it says in black and white on page 1 ....
“ Up to 24 bit / 384 Khz input from SPDIF, I2S and USB (via USB to I2S interface board), with isolation on the I2S interface.
Not DSD.....!
DSD is still a tiny ( although vocal!) niche in domestic audio.
Red book is a big market and even within the small niche of DIY audio there are 100's maybe 1,000's of interested DIY buyers for Soren to supply this product to, this thread is about optimising the Red Book product to sell into this market.
Soren is a business man not a DIY guy with no financial interest, so every minute of Sorens time is precious.
Please show him some respect and allow him to focus on the product as described and keep this thread focused on topic.
Maybe the dozen or so DSD guys can start their own thread?
Thanks
Derek.
Guys,
Soren has designed this as a flexible and low cost R2R solution for Red Book and 24 bit higher sampling rate digital music, as it says in black and white on page 1 ....
“ Up to 24 bit / 384 Khz input from SPDIF, I2S and USB (via USB to I2S interface board), with isolation on the I2S interface.
Not DSD.....!
DSD is still a tiny ( although vocal!) niche in domestic audio.
Red book is a big market and even within the small niche of DIY audio there are 100's maybe 1,000's of interested DIY buyers for Soren to supply this product to, this thread is about optimising the Red Book product to sell into this market.
Soren is a business man not a DIY guy with no financial interest, so every minute of Sorens time is precious.
Please show him some respect and allow him to focus on the product as described and keep this thread focused on topic.
Maybe the dozen or so DSD guys can start their own thread?
Thanks
Derek.
Agree that discussion on dsd512 etc is getting off topic... here are Miska's (creator of hqplayer) measurements
iFi iDSD Micro measurements - Blogs - Computer Audiophile
Should be the end of the DSD discussion.
Comparing PCM/DSD measurement on a DSD DAC, or other way around doesn’t reveal the trough according to Ted. As a DAC optimized for either one will measure more favorable to the platform intended.
As nearly all music I personally listen to are created on PCM platforms I don’t have much interest in DSD. And DXD of today haven’t truly made me think we will see any technology shift in the near future for the recording industry. So my appeal to Søren is to focus his time on the PCM implementation.
As nearly all music I personally listen to are created on PCM platforms I don’t have much interest in DSD. And DXD of today haven’t truly made me think we will see any technology shift in the near future for the recording industry. So my appeal to Søren is to focus his time on the PCM implementation.
Hi.
The latest report of a flaw in the volume control triggered me to write this post.
Meanwhile I can't keep track of all the issues/weaknesses/workarounds that's been reported. Many of them are of minor nature of course.
I don't know when and if they'll be resolved.
All this gets me further away from buying this DAC.
We should write up a summary of reported flaws, weaknesses
and workarounds.
That list should also outline, if items are acknowlegded by Soeren and when there can be a solution expected and how a solution will look like for any of these.
New features requests and improvement proposals, such as DSD support or new filters, are a different story. These can be kept in a different list.
The right place to put the list is IMO the Soekris DAC Wiki over here. Unfortunately it's not open for editing, otherwise I would have added some stuff already.
THX
The latest report of a flaw in the volume control triggered me to write this post.
Meanwhile I can't keep track of all the issues/weaknesses/workarounds that's been reported. Many of them are of minor nature of course.
I don't know when and if they'll be resolved.
All this gets me further away from buying this DAC.
We should write up a summary of reported flaws, weaknesses
and workarounds.
That list should also outline, if items are acknowlegded by Soeren and when there can be a solution expected and how a solution will look like for any of these.
New features requests and improvement proposals, such as DSD support or new filters, are a different story. These can be kept in a different list.
The right place to put the list is IMO the Soekris DAC Wiki over here. Unfortunately it's not open for editing, otherwise I would have added some stuff already.
THX
There is a problem with the volume control? If it's spzzzzkt's report, I thought he mentioned it's likely soldering wasn't as good as it should be?
Glt brought up a point on how the DAC may possibly load up at full volume on power up with the pot connected - this wasn't addressed. For all we know, that may be part of the new firmware meant to reduce power on and power-off thud.
Bugs/potential issues that I know of:
Not sure if I missed others... but that's all I got.
Glt brought up a point on how the DAC may possibly load up at full volume on power up with the pot connected - this wasn't addressed. For all we know, that may be part of the new firmware meant to reduce power on and power-off thud.
Bugs/potential issues that I know of:
- Input selection is buggy (reported by Normunds) - it locks to USB almost always... Soren has acknowledged this and will be addressing it in the next firmware
- Power-off thump (reported by TNT and RIP his speakers) - I run mine through Tibi's volume controller and the DAC goes off after my attenuator goes to standby so I don't have the turn-off thump.... but Glt has proposed the 1.4W load resistors on the negative rail to balance power drain as a potential workaround.
- Turn-on pop (reported by TNT) - It's loud on my speaker setup, but not loud on my headphones [I never used the buffered output, though]. Soren acknowledged this and will likely be addressed in the next firmware
- Pops while signal locks (reported by TNT)... primarily affects Amanero users. These pops can also happen without sample rate changes (i.e. searching a particular track to a certain point can cause this). Soren has acknowledged this and will attempt to both eliminate the pops as well as reduce the amount of time the DAM1021 takes to lock onto a signal to 300ms
- Inputs labelled wrongly on the diagram (reported by our dear TNT, too ). Erm... just switch the cables around... just the diagram is labelled wrongly
- Filter errors (?) (reported by zfe). Sorry, not technically inclined enough there... but I believe Soren has acknowledged this as well.
Not sure if I missed others... but that's all I got.
Lets not overdo things.
That's not our job. It's Soerens job.If Soeren wanted to setup a professional bugreporting, he would have done so long time ago. You do that before you launch a product. You do that when designing a product.
I doubt that he will set something up for the customer base. There are not that many issues from our side justifying such an effort.
Keep in mind, any extra effort will increase prices!! (That we learned earlier)
If we put a list into the Wiki, it'll be much easier to track and maintain from our side.