I agree, maybe others are just more optimistic.
I praxis a modern driver does break very rarely.
I just send by accident an enormous pulse into my speakers by playing around with the PSU of my phono stage. It nearly burned my ears but the speakers survived fine.
In 20 years as a president of Audio Physic i sold 10.000thds of speakers world wide and maybe less then 1% came back. The most extreme example was a Virgo with old SEAS Ploypropylen woofers. The cones had stated to burn because the voice coil got so hot that it ignited the cones. Some parts had desoldered on the crossover boards.
I found out that the customer had thrown a party in a big barn and the amps where the biggest Krells. We are now talking about hundreds of watts over many hours.
I praxis a modern driver does break very rarely.
I just send by accident an enormous pulse into my speakers by playing around with the PSU of my phono stage. It nearly burned my ears but the speakers survived fine.
In 20 years as a president of Audio Physic i sold 10.000thds of speakers world wide and maybe less then 1% came back. The most extreme example was a Virgo with old SEAS Ploypropylen woofers. The cones had stated to burn because the voice coil got so hot that it ignited the cones. Some parts had desoldered on the crossover boards.
I found out that the customer had thrown a party in a big barn and the amps where the biggest Krells. We are now talking about hundreds of watts over many hours.
Hi,
first I have to say: "Kudos to you! This is a really great thread."
I own a pair of two way speakers with SB26STC-C0004 and SB12NRXF25-4 (SB12 from Udo Wohlgemuth).
So I know the "regular" SB Acoustics products, but I never had the chance to listen to the Satoris.
Did anybody compare the Satoris with the "regular" ones? I would really like to know if they sound similar or pretty different. What improvements can I expect from the Satoris?
Thank you very much.
first I have to say: "Kudos to you! This is a really great thread."
I own a pair of two way speakers with SB26STC-C0004 and SB12NRXF25-4 (SB12 from Udo Wohlgemuth).
So I know the "regular" SB Acoustics products, but I never had the chance to listen to the Satoris.
Did anybody compare the Satoris with the "regular" ones? I would really like to know if they sound similar or pretty different. What improvements can I expect from the Satoris?
Thank you very much.
Hello Joachim,
thank you for the very quick reply.
That's a technical explanation. I was looking for a more subjective description of the sound.
Do they have a similar sound character? Where do you see main differences? Maybe the Satoris offer a wider sound stage or are much more clearer in the higher notes.... I don't know....
I have to admit that I only have limited experience with speakers, but in my opinion my SB12 offer a rather warm sound which is very pleasant to listen to even over a long peroid of time. Is this the same with the Satoris?
Really a very well detailed thread! Bravo!!
I am considering building the Jeff B build from miniscus since I am newer with DIY.
I would like to alter the cabinets to look more like the Watt speaker (from watt/puppy). I am thinking the added width would allow me to add a powered woofer cabinet beneath them at some point. I believe the wider base of the Watt design will yeild more cabinet options than the thinner profile Jeff has. I sent Jeff a PM on the meniscus site but have not heard back. I know he has posted here, so I am hoping you all or Jeff might be able to weigh-in.
I would keep the front baffle angle and interior volume exactly the same. I planned to use a Velodyne DD-12 with the michrophone and Eq to help with integration.
Now for questions-
1. Any issue with my alteration to the cabinet you all see. I would hate to lose any of the hard work Jeff put into the design.
2. The kit allows for upgrades to the crossovers. I would like to get the best crossovers I can...what upgrades would you all suggest?
3. Since I am planning to use a sub with these day 1, would you all advise building these as a sealed encolosure or port them and plug them.
Thank you!
I am considering building the Jeff B build from miniscus since I am newer with DIY.
I would like to alter the cabinets to look more like the Watt speaker (from watt/puppy). I am thinking the added width would allow me to add a powered woofer cabinet beneath them at some point. I believe the wider base of the Watt design will yeild more cabinet options than the thinner profile Jeff has. I sent Jeff a PM on the meniscus site but have not heard back. I know he has posted here, so I am hoping you all or Jeff might be able to weigh-in.
I would keep the front baffle angle and interior volume exactly the same. I planned to use a Velodyne DD-12 with the michrophone and Eq to help with integration.
Now for questions-
1. Any issue with my alteration to the cabinet you all see. I would hate to lose any of the hard work Jeff put into the design.
2. The kit allows for upgrades to the crossovers. I would like to get the best crossovers I can...what upgrades would you all suggest?
3. Since I am planning to use a sub with these day 1, would you all advise building these as a sealed encolosure or port them and plug them.
Thank you!
The Sound of the Satori Monitor ?
Very clean, open and dynamic.
Soundstaging is great too.
When it is on the recording and your system is good quality to sound images are free from the speakers and free floating realistic in space.
focus is great too because the Satoris are made to close tolerances. My pair matches very well.
I can not say much about the Kairos. Maybe Jeff B. jumps in to help you.
I mostly use parts from Mundorf.
Very clean, open and dynamic.
Soundstaging is great too.
When it is on the recording and your system is good quality to sound images are free from the speakers and free floating realistic in space.
focus is great too because the Satoris are made to close tolerances. My pair matches very well.
I can not say much about the Kairos. Maybe Jeff B. jumps in to help you.
I mostly use parts from Mundorf.
Mr Malty, crossovers at this level of performance are precisely designed to work with the specific front baffle dimensions of the design. Due to the baffle step effect, reducing the width of the baffle around the tweeter will cause it to roll off at a higher frequency than designed, creating a dip in the system FR. Might not be audible, but I personally would not mess with the baffle dimensions or angle. The compound angle joints on a box design like Watt calls for good woodworking.
I think you'll find the kit xo parts quality more than good enough.
With a single sub I would build them as ported so the crossover can be as low as possible. You can close the port later with a sock if you want sealed alignment for stereo subs with higher crossover freq later.
I think you'll find the kit xo parts quality more than good enough.
With a single sub I would build them as ported so the crossover can be as low as possible. You can close the port later with a sock if you want sealed alignment for stereo subs with higher crossover freq later.
My apologies to Joachim for this highjack, but since my Kairos has been discussed here and since I have receive a number of emails and PM's specifically asking if my Kairos can be built on a tradional flat baffle, I wanted to post this update.
As most of you are aware, the crossover in the Kairos is designed specifically with the baffle slant and its offset factored in achieve the time and phase relationship of the Kairos, so the same crossover can not work with the drivers on a flat baffle and achieve flat response.
So, in response to all of the emails I have completed a crossover design for the SB Satori drivers for use on a flat baffle and have sent it to Mark at Menicus.
I used the identical cabinet volume and tuning as the Kairos except without the slanted baffle. Of course, this changes the time alignment to be more like we normally deal with and as a result I ended up going with a more standard LR4 In-phase asymmetrical acoustic crossover with excellent phase tracking and a deep reverse null.
The crossover point came out to be an identical 1.9 khz and I used the measured response of the Kairos as my target response when modeling and was able to hit it pretty much on the nose. So, the new speaker has the identical on-axis frequency response and crossover point. It would have better vertical lobing, but with a lot more phase rotation. (I wonder how much different then sound? Or if you can even tell the difference. I can't really test them head to head to see).
The new version has a different name to avoid confusion. It is called the "Adelphos" , sticking with the Greek theme, Adelphos means "brother or kinsman" to the Kairos. Mark will price out this kit as well for anyone who rather choose the standard flat baffle over the Kairos special time and phase characteristics.
I may soon be working on another kit using the Satori woofer but with a different type of high-end tweeter. Details to follow.......
Jeff B.
As most of you are aware, the crossover in the Kairos is designed specifically with the baffle slant and its offset factored in achieve the time and phase relationship of the Kairos, so the same crossover can not work with the drivers on a flat baffle and achieve flat response.
So, in response to all of the emails I have completed a crossover design for the SB Satori drivers for use on a flat baffle and have sent it to Mark at Menicus.
I used the identical cabinet volume and tuning as the Kairos except without the slanted baffle. Of course, this changes the time alignment to be more like we normally deal with and as a result I ended up going with a more standard LR4 In-phase asymmetrical acoustic crossover with excellent phase tracking and a deep reverse null.
The crossover point came out to be an identical 1.9 khz and I used the measured response of the Kairos as my target response when modeling and was able to hit it pretty much on the nose. So, the new speaker has the identical on-axis frequency response and crossover point. It would have better vertical lobing, but with a lot more phase rotation. (I wonder how much different then sound? Or if you can even tell the difference. I can't really test them head to head to see).
The new version has a different name to avoid confusion. It is called the "Adelphos" , sticking with the Greek theme, Adelphos means "brother or kinsman" to the Kairos. Mark will price out this kit as well for anyone who rather choose the standard flat baffle over the Kairos special time and phase characteristics.
I may soon be working on another kit using the Satori woofer but with a different type of high-end tweeter. Details to follow.......
Jeff B.
Firstly, great thread; very interesting with a wealth of not so obvious speaker building information.
How does the Satori speaker compare to the Anima speaker. I am quite familiar with the Anima as I've actually had a pair in my system, albeit briefly. Of course, the Satoris are a bit bigger, but how do they compare tonally, and at low listening levels?