I started this all-ply version of the C-Horn today, using 25mm standard ply for the internals, plus a nice 12mm Kauri Pine ply outer panel. The 25mm acrylic side panels will still be used per my normal C-Horns.
Likely finish will be a light stain, plus a satin clear spray varnish. Sould look smart....a bit like the Clearaudio turntables using Panzerholz.
Working with ply is SO MUCH nicer than MDF!!...lighter too. The wieght should come down from about 95Kg each to a much more manageable 75Kg each (165 pounds).
I've tweaked the design to incorporate the cabinet being made in 2 pieces each side. This is much easier for sanding/finishing. The dowels will protrude from the ply internals and slot into the matching dowel holes on the acrylic sides to help with alignment, especially as the wood sections flex a little.
Large 75mm hex screws are used via the Oak dowels to secure the side panels....then plastic caps are fitted.
My friend who's getting these will be using the Fostex 206E driver....but we're going to router an extra channel into the horn slices to accommodate a possible Field Coil driver later on.
A fun project....
Andrew.
Likely finish will be a light stain, plus a satin clear spray varnish. Sould look smart....a bit like the Clearaudio turntables using Panzerholz.
Working with ply is SO MUCH nicer than MDF!!...lighter too. The wieght should come down from about 95Kg each to a much more manageable 75Kg each (165 pounds).
I've tweaked the design to incorporate the cabinet being made in 2 pieces each side. This is much easier for sanding/finishing. The dowels will protrude from the ply internals and slot into the matching dowel holes on the acrylic sides to help with alignment, especially as the wood sections flex a little.
Large 75mm hex screws are used via the Oak dowels to secure the side panels....then plastic caps are fitted.
My friend who's getting these will be using the Fostex 206E driver....but we're going to router an extra channel into the horn slices to accommodate a possible Field Coil driver later on.
A fun project....
Andrew.
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Badman...not sure what you mean re dimension. Are you referring to the constant expansion rate?
Don, thanks. One of the main drivers (excuse the pun) for this speaker was outstanding and exotic aesthetics. The fact that it sounds very real and natural is equally important.
As an audio enthusiast, nowhere have I compromised on the sound over aesthetics....
Don, thanks. One of the main drivers (excuse the pun) for this speaker was outstanding and exotic aesthetics. The fact that it sounds very real and natural is equally important.
As an audio enthusiast, nowhere have I compromised on the sound over aesthetics....
I think Mr. Badman refers to the fact that the horn curve lays on only one plane (vvrrrr!),not something a la Schmaks where the folds are made in the three directions.Right? I agree with that , since after all the great handcraft you have made for obtaining such perfect curved shapes , in the end inside the duct there are square corners all around it ...In a strange way , for me it seems that those "linear" shapes in a "round" design compromise the energy transfer function of the air mass....Ciao!
Does that mean Spawn, Frugal, Dallas, Chang, Carfrae, Medallion, plus dozens of other Lowther, Fostex designs need to go back to the drawing boards? Are the thousands of customers who have these products greatly missing out?
I know the bass response in the horns I listen to is very smooth, deep and fast. My friends and clients can attest to this. Obviously, to add a horn expansion without parallel side walls is ideal....but at a conisderable expense.
I commend those builders who do that work....
Regards.
I know the bass response in the horns I listen to is very smooth, deep and fast. My friends and clients can attest to this. Obviously, to add a horn expansion without parallel side walls is ideal....but at a conisderable expense.
I commend those builders who do that work....
Regards.
What do those cost to build? How long do they take? Compared to this curvy horn, they're a weekend and a couple sheets, vs. hundreds worth of ply and a ton of either CNC or tracing time.
My point, and this was obvious, was that given the extremes taken to make a smooth flare in the vertical domain, it would have made sense to make it a 3 dimensional flare. I'm quite certain the side-side resonance is visible on the impedance curve, FR, and CSD, and in all likelihood quite audible once one is alerted to it. It's like hot-rodding a car and leaving stock tires on.
They're beautiful, but what a shame, that the last little bit, that would have been easy (within the context of such a time-consuming, expensive build) was left out.
V. little time today -family illness, but although in principle I agree with your points, particuarly WRT the high cost & waste produced by translam construction, it's not necessarily as bad as all that sonically. Whether any horizontal standing waves are an issue in colouring the output will largely depend on the physical width and upper corner frequency of the horn; that goes whatever construction method is employed. If it's rolling off below a frequency where these may be an issue, it's not going to be a major concern.
Hope the family gets well. My kid's sick today... sick of sitting in class. She's gonna get an earful when I get home.
From the look of these, which are relatively wide (about 2x as wide as an equivalent "Spawn"), I'm pretty confident that the side-side mode will be plentifully excited.
Badman, my CNC slicing technique means I can build a cabint easily on a weekend...so that argument is not entirely valid. Also, all of my designs can be bought by DIY enthusiasts, who wish to build something a little different, and can do so in hours, not weeks per normal manufacturing techniques. (Try building a Tannoy GRF in one weekend....!) If this means parallel walls, so be it.
The waste argument has some validity, but I nest the smaller section of the horn in he mouth of the larger piece...so waste is reduced considerably. But, I consider this waste to be perfectly acceptable in order to create such an exotic scultpure. The speaker is as much a talking piece as listening....especially in this new all-ply version.
On the non parallel walls, I guess I just have to leave your concerns to you. But please remember, I'm using a 2-dimensional cutting process, not a multi-axis router....so saying that I've just failed to complete the last part of the project properly is a little unfair. To build a horn as you've suggested would require a completely different approach. As I said earlier, I commend those folk who do such work.
I'm wondering what your view is of the Hedlund horn, or the large Big Fun Horn? Bother receive oustanding reviews the world over.....
I'm also reminded of the famous vintage speakers such as the JBL Paragon, Jensen Imperial, Tannoy GRF's etc (which I build - see attached). All of these designs incorporate 2 parallel walls..usually top and bottom. Are you also suggesting these world-renowned designs are flawed?
I trust the note in your signature isn't refelective of a general dislike for these types of horns. If it is, then the criticisms raised are really just from a personal bias, nothing more....!;-)
Kind regards.
The waste argument has some validity, but I nest the smaller section of the horn in he mouth of the larger piece...so waste is reduced considerably. But, I consider this waste to be perfectly acceptable in order to create such an exotic scultpure. The speaker is as much a talking piece as listening....especially in this new all-ply version.
On the non parallel walls, I guess I just have to leave your concerns to you. But please remember, I'm using a 2-dimensional cutting process, not a multi-axis router....so saying that I've just failed to complete the last part of the project properly is a little unfair. To build a horn as you've suggested would require a completely different approach. As I said earlier, I commend those folk who do such work.
I'm wondering what your view is of the Hedlund horn, or the large Big Fun Horn? Bother receive oustanding reviews the world over.....
I'm also reminded of the famous vintage speakers such as the JBL Paragon, Jensen Imperial, Tannoy GRF's etc (which I build - see attached). All of these designs incorporate 2 parallel walls..usually top and bottom. Are you also suggesting these world-renowned designs are flawed?
I trust the note in your signature isn't refelective of a general dislike for these types of horns. If it is, then the criticisms raised are really just from a personal bias, nothing more....!;-)
Kind regards.
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Your machinery is great and nobody can blame your "children".In twenty years of box contruction I used a drill and a saw for making the round holes and a saw for cutting the wood 
But that's nothing in comparison with the sweat drops falling when cutting iron!
Since I do it for my pleasure , it's just the agony before the extasy.
But anybody's free to do whatever ...Cloning someone else design,like in every ART , must be the beginning for finding your own way and style .
BTW I like the zig-zag in the compression chamber
But that's nothing in comparison with the sweat drops falling when cutting iron!
Since I do it for my pleasure , it's just the agony before the extasy.
But anybody's free to do whatever ...Cloning someone else design,like in every ART , must be the beginning for finding your own way and style .
BTW I like the zig-zag in the compression chamber
Your machinery is great and nobody can blame your "children".In twenty years of box contruction I used a drill and a saw for making the round holes and a saw for cutting the wood
But that's nothing in comparison with the sweat drops falling when cutting iron!
Since I do it for my pleasure , it's just the agony before the extasy.
But anybody's free to do whatever ...Cloning someone else design,like in every ART , must be the beginning for finding your own way and style .
BTW I like the zig-zag in the compression chamber
I wonder if there is a hint of jealousy in Badman's comments. I agree that while not perfect, the final product is incredibly beautiful to view, but I imagine that this is also matched by the sound! Wonderful work.
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