jleaman said:
Fire-wire is not just build for speed. The whole technology is far better than USB. It has decent timing control, better bandwidth allocation, and much more fun stuff. Oh well, who cares, USB works just fine..
Speaking about that: the USB board also has a SPDIF output. Would it be smart to link that to the new Wolfson SPDIF receiver, let it decently reclock there, and then let the data go to the DAC from there, in stead of directly linking the USB receiver to the DAC? My guess is that jitter might be reduced even further (the PCM2707 doesn't really say a lot about that though).
An added bonus might be that switching the SPDIF signal might be a lot easier that switching I2S.
Firewire evolved because of USB 1.1 speed limitations. Latency is not an issue when using ASIO drivers.
Today USB 2.0 has better performances than Firewire and some sound cards using USB 2.0 appeared:
MOTU 828mkII USB 2.0
E-MU 0404 USB 2.0
EDIROL UA101 USB 2.0
It exists Firewire II faster than USB 2, but not so diffused.
However there is not an analogue to PCM2707 based on USB 2.0, but it will be needed (and maybe released) wnen, and if, we will have plenty of 24bit/192 khz music to play.
Today USB 2.0 has better performances than Firewire and some sound cards using USB 2.0 appeared:
MOTU 828mkII USB 2.0
E-MU 0404 USB 2.0
EDIROL UA101 USB 2.0
It exists Firewire II faster than USB 2, but not so diffused.
However there is not an analogue to PCM2707 based on USB 2.0, but it will be needed (and maybe released) wnen, and if, we will have plenty of 24bit/192 khz music to play.
thomaseliot said:
Yeh, as if those 80 Mbits will make a difference in real life... Fact is that with most devices Firewire performance is still better that USB 2, and needed CPU power is far less.
However there is not an analogue to PCM2707 based on USB 2.0, but it will be needed (and maybe released) wnen, and if, we will have plenty of 24bit/192 khz music to play.
Actually, 24/192 might even work with USB 1.1 it's about 8.7 Mbit/second, so there is still some room for signaling an packeting
thomaseliot said:
Firewire was developed completely independently of USB 1.0 and in the same time frame. USB had nothing to do with FireWire
This is not true at all. Firewire was developed from the get-go as a transport for high-denity media and when used with video, large amounts of data, or even audio Firewire 400 handily out-classes USB 2.0 (check out posts by Fast Eddy for technical reasons)
Anyone who has used an external drive with both Firewire & USB connectivity can attest to the difference (the USB cables for my drive iare stored away).
I don't know about Windows (where drivers can be a real pain -- actually that pretty much applies to most of Windows) but on a Mac Firewire is native & just works.
dave
So it appears that USB 1.1 is more than fine for standard CD data rates then.
Knowing the minimum requirements is quite helpful since I have a lot of old stuff laying around.
I have three computers not used so much, with only USB 1.1 connections:
- a Blue/white Mac G3 with a 350 mHz processor
Could be updated with a USB 2 card
- a 450 mhz Mac iMac - the kind with the CRT screen in a lovely strawberry color.. tough to update the USB, unless there's a Firewire/USB translator box? cause it does have Firewire of course..
- a PC with a 1.2 mhz Athlon. I still kinda use this for work, so more a future thing
Anyone care to opine on how will each of these work with Russ's USB DAC? And maybe more generally, what processor speeds will work with CD bitrate audio and 24/192.
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Thanks Jason,
so you don't see any problem with the mere 350 Mhz processor? Just sending the data out the port isn't much of a load I guess.. It just occured to me that if it can play a CD, it can do the job, right?
I have a clever guy who has the latest OSX running on the iMac, and it's 450 Mhz, and compact so that's probably the way to go...
My biggest of the big question was whether USB 1.1 was fast enough, and that's been answered. Another question is whether the iMac could handle anexternal USB hard drive AND sent the data out the USB. If it's a single shared USB 1.1, maybe not..... My foolproof plan is to get a Firewire/USB external drive, and run the HD off the Firewire..
so you don't see any problem with the mere 350 Mhz processor? Just sending the data out the port isn't much of a load I guess.. It just occured to me that if it can play a CD, it can do the job, right?
I have a clever guy who has the latest OSX running on the iMac, and it's 450 Mhz, and compact so that's probably the way to go...
My biggest of the big question was whether USB 1.1 was fast enough, and that's been answered. Another question is whether the iMac could handle anexternal USB hard drive AND sent the data out the USB. If it's a single shared USB 1.1, maybe not..... My foolproof plan is to get a Firewire/USB external drive, and run the HD off the Firewire..
Variac,
How about http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?sku=A0609698&cs=19&c=us&l=en
then your external hard drive could be off the usb bus...
How about http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?sku=A0609698&cs=19&c=us&l=en
then your external hard drive could be off the usb bus...
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jleaman said:
OVER PRICED
You could use the imac for your audio server, just remove all the stuff you will never use. Stuff it full of ram and she would be set to go
It was just an example of what I thought would be nice - and easily solve the issue. I wasn't really interested in price shopping.
Have fun dragging the imac to parties.
Variac said:
Mark,
Anyone with a Mac & Firewire who gets a USB drive is short-changing themselves. I got a couple of these little MacAlley cases & put a 2 1/2" drive in... fits in your pocket (& with a new enuff machine you can install an OS & run off it -- very convienient for on the road or if you have multiple machines)
(they also make one -- as do quite few others -- for 3.5" drives)
dave
PS; i tried the USB once and gave up on that
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Variac said:
The problem with the NAS -- at least mine (a 250 GB Acer) -- is that they typically run a version of Linux and invariably when i try to back a folder up to it. it complains about file names being too long and won't copy a thing. So to back up i have to Zip the folder with a short name & copy that. Very inconvienient.
dave
Sorry to have been a bit off topic, but I suspect lots of people will snap up that USB module to use with a music server so it will be useful to discuss this. In my case I have the computer and I have a decent amount of RAM in it, so I will probably use it as the server, BUT there are some problems- The existing hard drive isn't big enough for lossless files, and my buddy who put the OS on it is out of town, and it is tricky to install the system on the old machines. So, the networked disk or and external disk could be a very good solution to mention also. By discussing it we have now found out about the naming thing, so that is valuable also...
Yes Dave, it really isn't much more expensive to get an external box with both Firewire and USB. Then most bases are covered. My son is perfectly happy with a USB2 connection to his external drive from his PC running iTunes. He has no problems and it is plenty fast, and it will work with comps w/o Firewire.
Certainly given the choice between USB1 and Firewire as with my old Macs - you are right-the Firewire would be the way to go!
Yes Dave, it really isn't much more expensive to get an external box with both Firewire and USB. Then most bases are covered. My son is perfectly happy with a USB2 connection to his external drive from his PC running iTunes. He has no problems and it is plenty fast, and it will work with comps w/o Firewire.
Certainly given the choice between USB1 and Firewire as with my old Macs - you are right-the Firewire would be the way to go!
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