I quite agree. In some respects it sounds more refined as well as more restrained. Maybe a little extra volume is all I need!I'll also re-adjust the plus and minus voltages from the Placid, which I find drop about 2% during warmup.
Regards,
Frank/Mpls.
Turn the knob 30 degrees further clockwise
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Thanks Barrows,
I look forward to your report on the new Legato build.
Corner frequency shouldn't be an issue with my my BII/Legato because it only sees the upper side of a 120 Hz shelf, as administered by 24db/octave crossover software. [120Hz and down goes to an Opus, which does a fine job - the XO software attenuates that channel to match levels]
With more listening I have added conviction concerning my feelings that lower Legato gain is less 'involving'. [AVR300 is right, it is the feelings that the sound evokes that make a setup really special!] 180R/390R reminded me of the great-sounding SE triode preamp I used to use - back when JAN military 6sn7 tubes were around. It had wonderful 'life' even if the occasional hot vocal was a little strained. When the old JAN radar tubes were gone, no other glass could match their 'guts' and 'space', and I was permanently spoiled. I was SO delighted when BII/Legato brought that life back into a balanced format! But it seems to have been pure luck
that I originally pushed the gain up to ~1.9v.Among my reference tracks, nothing displays resolution better than choral music - the ability to resolve individual voices in the crowd (to the chagrin of most choir directors
). With R1-4 at 150R, Legato is truly wonderful at that but the choir seems 'over there'. At 180R it felt more like being on the director's podium. And well recorded percussion? Real impact! 30 extra degrees, AVR300? Absolutely, but only when the wife is away!
My mind is still open. So let us know how the new one sounds, Barrows. I may decide to follow you with a fresh build.
Cheers!
Frank/Mpls.
Hi
Can I just join to Nic question....
Ventus replacing LME opamp as Bal/SE stage...
This is something I'm thinking for some time....
Any one try this...?
Rosendorfer
In an IVY based set up, running dual mono and single ended so two bal/se stages, replacing just the second outboard bal/se with a ventus, the sound moves slightly in the direction of the legato. Slightly less harsh or slightly less detailed, but with greater bass drive. Obviously the higher current output will interact differently depending on the load. I also left off the inductor so that isn't part of the comparison.
Curious to separate the effects I have built two 49600s into the loop of a bal/se. No softening of the high frequencies as both the high and the bass have more drive more snap, but not artificially only if the song has been mixed that way.
To sum up I think I prefer the Legato for current to voltage conversion, but i prefer the bal/se over the ventus for summing. Adding the higher current output of the diamond buffer to the bal/se is the best yet.
Curious to separate the effects I have built two 49600s into the loop of a bal/se. No softening of the high frequencies as both the high and the bass have more drive more snap, but not artificially only if the song has been mixed that way.
To sum up I think I prefer the Legato for current to voltage conversion, but i prefer the bal/se over the ventus for summing. Adding the higher current output of the diamond buffer to the bal/se is the best yet.
Changed C19 & C22 1nF for Amtrans AMCH MKP copper foil also C1 & C4 15nF for teflon film & aluminium foil, subjective opinion: MKP take off the roughness in highs & teflon adds more body & control to mids & lows
Now it's time to resistors but I don't see any reason to use 1W for R1-4 & R20-24, could someone elaborate?
Now it's time to resistors but I don't see any reason to use 1W for R1-4 & R20-24, could someone elaborate?
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MKP take off the roughness in highs & teflon adds more body & control to mids & lows
Now it's time to resistors but I don't see any reason to use 1W for R1-4 & R20-24, could someone elaborate?
Not trying to change your opinion, but for me the Panasonic MKP certainly should not be associated with 'roughness'. Any roughness I hear is in the recordings. [But by all means suit yourself.
]The resistors need heat tolerance. I burned up one 390R, but it's replacement seemed to last...
But I too have a question for you engineers about metal film resistors. With all the different (secret-voodoo?) recipes for metal films and packaging etc., are the 1W resistors a worthwhile target for (capacitor-style) tweakage? I had thought not, but I'm just asking first before soldering. To hit exactly the values I'd like to try, I can't use the brand/type that I hear sounding good. TIA
Frank
My personal feeling is that a quality metal film resistor (quality meaning low noise, non-inductive, solid construction [copper leads etc]) will have no sonic signature. You can certainly find resistors with lower noise than others. The Dales we supply with the Legato are well-known to be very low noise and audio friendly.
Metal-oxide resistors, which are MUCH easier to find with 1W ratings are higher noise.
Carbon film can be good as well, but WILL change value over time, as they absorb moisture, so I don't like them much and never use them.
Basically, go for low noise. Is there an audible difference apart from that? Maybe, but it's an incredibly subjective thing, and I don;t like commenting about stuff like that, as so much of the audiophile world is full of fantastic and unsupportable claims and I don;t want to be a part of that. I am not saying such claims are false, but they are for the individual. What I hear is not what anyone else hears.
I always thought it was much more cost-efficient to trim your ear hair then to upgrade resistors
I always thought it was much more cost-efficient to trim your ear hair then to upgrade resistors
but not totally off the wall!As a medical guy, I know why the acuity of my hearing changes day-to-day. The differences are sometimes not trivial! For me it's usually the eustation tubes - the 'port' of the inner drum.
Thanks so much for the resistor info!
Frank
My personal feeling is that a quality metal film resistor (quality meaning low noise, non-inductive, solid construction [copper leads etc]) will have no sonic signature. You can certainly find resistors with lower noise than others. The Dales we supply with the Legato are well-known to be very low noise and audio friendly.
Metal-oxide resistors, which are MUCH easier to find with 1W ratings are higher noise.
Carbon film can be good as well, but WILL change value over time, as they absorb moisture, so I don't like them much and never use them.
Basically, go for low noise. Is there an audible difference apart from that? Maybe, but it's an incredibly subjective thing, and I don;t like commenting about stuff like that, as so much of the audiophile world is full of fantastic and unsupportable claims and I don;t want to be a part of that. I am not saying such claims are false, but they are for the individual. What I hear is not what anyone else hears.
I always thought it was much more cost-efficient to trim your ear hair then to upgrade resistors
I deduce that they are necessary 1W, why? less noise? what's the minimum power needed?
I recall something like 0.35W for the 150R and 0.7W for the 350R (with 15V rails). You would not like to go lower than 1W. In fact on Legato 2 the 350R resistor has been replaced with two paralleled 680R 1W resistors (I assume for increased margin and better heat dissipation). Forget about Z-foils.......
I seem to recall from IVY III that the filter caps are (impossible to find) 2.5% tolerance caps. Q: is the tolerance of the 15nF caps on Legato likely to be important?
Thanks,
Nic
Francolargo: as a "medical guy" you will certainly know the power of the placebo effect - and that its efficacy is proportional to the cost
Thanks,
Nic
Francolargo: as a "medical guy" you will certainly know the power of the placebo effect - and that its efficacy is proportional to the cost
Hello Frank, one of the parameters that resistors are specified by is voltage coefficient of resistance, or how the resistance changes according to the voltage across the resistor. The current source resistors have a constant voltage maintained across them, so voltage coefficient shouldn't be a factor.
Also the should be dissipating a more or less constant amount of power so the temperature coefficient shouldn't be significant either. Just some theory, but personally I wouldn't alter what's already there. The I/V resistors may be a different matter. Some have reported good results from the high-end Vishays.
I seem to recall from IVY III that the filter caps are (impossible to find) 2.5% tolerance caps. Q: is the tolerance of the 15nF caps on Legato likely to be important?
Thanks,
Nic
Francolargo: as a "medical guy" you will certainly know the power of the placebo effect - and that its efficacy is proportional to the cost
My 15nF teflon film & aluminium foil is 1%
Francolargo: as a "medical guy" you will certainly know the power of the placebo effect - and that its efficacy is proportional to the cost
No greater truth is found here, my friend!
Thanks Spartacus! So to translate... I surmise that I shouldn't notice any difference between metal films having noise parameters of, say, 5 nV/V and 30 nV/V? When you say the 'high-end' Vishays, I assume you mean TX2575 series? I'm curious about metal film resistors with magnetic components like the steel end caps in Vishay MBA/SMA series? http://www.vishay.com/docs/28767/28767.pdf Irrelevant or avoid? I haven't yet learned how the stock Vishay CCF60s are constructed.
Review of rationale: As mentioned above in the thread, I blend channels between BII/Legato and Opus (8741). Legato R1-4 @ 180R is more dynamic than the Opus and some redbook recordings got tiring. 150R is not bad, but I would prefer a more dynamic presentation. So I wanted to try about 170 R (maintaining the 2.2 ratio as well as possible) and am still looking for parts. I was thinking that 2X340R (.5W)/ 2X750R would be just about dialed-in...
Cheers,
Frank
Thanks for the info, I never had in mind Z-foils, I have in mind Caddock MP-820/821 TCR 50ppm tol. 1% 2.25W without heatsink, if memory don't fail the Vishay Dale CCF60 are 100ppm tol. 1% 1W
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Thanks for the info, I never had in mind Z-foils, I have in mind Caddock MP-820/821 TCR 50ppm tol. 1% 2.25W without heatsink, if memory don't fail the Vishay Dale CCF60 are 100ppm tol. 1% 1W
Current noise is not listed in the datasheet. Not sure if they would get you any improvement.
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