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Old 14th December 2010, 11:18 PM   #1021
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Default If these numbers

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Originally Posted by LeonvB View Post
ESS themselves have done that work, as they state their measurements for the ES9018:
mono mode
DNR 135 dB / THD+N -120 dB
stereo mode
DNR 132 dB / THD+N -118 dB
8-channel mode
DNR 129 dB / THD+N -118 dB
Were the only difference, then no one could possibly hear the difference, as these are all below the threshold of audibility in any real world system. This just confirms my suspicion that dual mono, while maybe theoretically better, may offer no audible benefit.
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Old 14th December 2010, 11:28 PM   #1022
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I would agree they are practically identical. But you know how people are. If we think we can wring a bit extra out of it we will at least try.

As for the output swing. That is configurable. It need not be double if you don't want it to be.
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Old 14th December 2010, 11:51 PM   #1023
LeonvB is offline LeonvB  Netherlands
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Build it, and hear for yourself. The Trident regulators have NO measurable impact according to Russ, but there's certainly a sonic impact. Let's just say I have no interest in theory, but I do have a dual mono set with Tridents attached. And I'm not complaining...
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Old 14th December 2010, 11:56 PM   #1024
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I certainly do not believe all things are measurable. At least not yet.
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Old 14th December 2010, 11:59 PM   #1025
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Default Leon...

I have no argument with what you are hearing. And I have no intent on building a dual mono B-II, as this approach is just philosophically not the way I like to do things.
On the Tridents though, I have a set of these for my new Legato II/B-II build, and I certainly expect them to offer a sonic improvement-no reason why a lower noise/impedance power supply, and the elimination of (due to no need) of electrolytic caps should not result in sonic benefits. In fact, my experience is that power supply changes often offer the biggest improvements in performance for any audio components.
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Old 15th December 2010, 12:01 AM   #1026
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I won't go any further than this.

Numbers don't always show a difference. Sometimes they even show a difference that seems contradictory to your subjective experience. In both cases it could be that the question or assumption behind the numbers is what is off, not the numbers themselves. One thing I hope we can agree upon is if the numbers show a difference there is a difference. How audible and then how meaningful that difference are questions everyone must answer for themselves.

If you haven't heard you don't know, so try it and listen. If you don't hear a difference, or don't value the difference you hear, great.

For me audio is a little like swimming in a mountain lake. You have to decide you are going to do it and then jump in with both feet. You can't swim without getting wet. If you just dip your toes in, it is far to easy to talk yourself out of a possibly very rewarding experience.
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Old 15th December 2010, 12:04 AM   #1027
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Well you all should know. I am not one to waste time on stuff I don't like. I created Trident because I knew it was at least a bit better than what is there now. And in this arena, a little bit can really go a long way. I spent many moons designing and refining that puppy.
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Old 15th December 2010, 12:05 AM   #1028
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stephen1212 View Post
For me audio is a little like swimming in a mountain lake. You have to decide you are going to do it and then jump in with both feet. You can't swim without getting wet. If you just dip your toes in, it is far to easy to talk yourself out of a possibly very rewarding experience.
Very apt.
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Old 15th December 2010, 12:37 AM   #1029
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Stephen, are you going into a balanced amp?
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Old 15th December 2010, 03:39 AM   #1030
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Default Stephen...

I never suggested there was not an audible difference-I would never make a presumption like that with something I have not heard.
What I pointed out is that the difference shown in the above measurements would never be audible in a real system-this does not not mean there is no audible difference-it just means that any audible difference is not the result of the distortion/noise reduction. There is always the possibility of things we do not know how to measure affecting the sonic performance though.
I run balanced only, so no need to go dual mono to get good CMR. I suspect if there is an advantage to dual mono, it might show up in stereo separation measurements versus frequency, as I could see, perhaps, a single 9018 DAC chip suffering from some capacitive coupling.
Philosophically, what bothers me about running two complete DACs is that this approach doubles the production of RF onboard, so there are going to be some tradeoffs in going this route.
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