To be perfectly honest, I did not intend to update the page this morning with the pricing, as it is still in a state of flux (we are still finalizing the parts). I might add the third PS option back in, I was still working on it.
A couple things I want to mention though. The new IVY (IVYII) is really a mono design, so the implementation on the Buf32s is really two IVYs, so a more accurate apple to apple comparison would be Buffalo + IVY + IVY (part count wise).
Also, you can't see it from the picture, but there are a lot of parts on the bottom of the board. The original Buffalo had a single cap. This makes building the boards a lot more tricky, so we will likely send them out to be assembled. An estimate of this cost is included in the posted pricing, but again, will likely change a bit.
Attachments
Russ White said:
There is nothing really to compare it to.
Really it is something special.
Cheers!
Russ
Having A/B compared the Sabre-24 and the Sabre-32 prototype boards at ESS Hq, the S-32 experience is special. The sound of the S-32 has a warmth and smoothness over the S-24. Even compared to the Macintosh Sabre CD player ($6,000 USD) , the S-32 sound was superior.
From the care in choosing components that Russ has made, I would expect the Buffalo-32 to sound better than the ESS prototype. I just amortize the cost of the B-32 over the years of enjoyment that I'll receive from listening to it, and to me the cost is worth it. Maybe that's screwball, but the S-32 sounds wonderful and I am waiting with bated breath for the B-32 to go on sale.
RossG
awpagan said:
Well, its something that while quite simple took me a while to grasp. The path the the high impedance analog signal takes to the low impedance I/V converter is critical.
I will leave it at that.
Yes, its not a small thing. And yes. Some people told me so. And to you all I say thank you.
Cheers!
Russ
Beefy said:
Well by virtue of the next stage(since its almost nil impedance) what your would get would be close to 0VAC unless you removed the I/V stage.
So it would take something like what we had in the first Buffalo which is what the "Tweaker Board" will be. But don't expect the same kind of Dynamic range as can be done on a single board, as it is simply not possible. Though a big part of me wishes it were...
Cheers!
Russ
BrianDonegan said:
Brian, you have quite a few points there and, rest assured, noone here believes you're trying to make any real money out of the DIY community. You have proven otherwise too many times for that to be an issue.
Do take under consideration though that, at least up until now, when asked both here and in TP's support forum, you guys were unable to tell if and to what extent the Buffalo32S would sound better than the original Buffalo + Counterpoints combo. Under this prism, the price is high. I'm genuinely hoping this will all change when we see the measurements and read the first listening impressions of the new board.
I'm sure an option to buy a kit which includes a partially populated board (thus offered at a lower price) would be a welcome addition.
I understand there'll be some SMD soldering involved but that shouldn't put off people in Buffalo's target group (and, to be honest, once you get the hang of it, it's faster than working with through-hole components).
Brian,
Can't wait till you guys start shipping/accepting orders. I check the site and this board every single day. Can you post a picture of the underside of the Buffalo 32 board to show us the complexity you mentioned previously?
Instead of going with my own separate analog output stage, I might try it with the integrated IVY board at first and see what all the hububb is about! Of course I will be using my own power supplies using Paul Hynes Shunt regulators, etc...
Anand.
Can't wait till you guys start shipping/accepting orders. I check the site and this board every single day. Can you post a picture of the underside of the Buffalo 32 board to show us the complexity you mentioned previously?
Instead of going with my own separate analog output stage, I might try it with the integrated IVY board at first and see what all the hububb is about! Of course I will be using my own power supplies using Paul Hynes Shunt regulators, etc...
Anand.
Buffalo's availability / price
Brian & Russ
My frugal nature wanted the Buffalo to remain the same price as before.
So I, too was a little disappointed that it was more expensive.
But, I am amazed at how much effort you two have put into your various projects, not just the various Buffalo iterations. Your courteous replies and regular presence on this board have likely addressed and alleviated a lot of concerns. I for one would like to thank you both for all of your efforts, seen and unseen by the people on this forum. Whatever my financial concerns are, if you don't get sufficient return for your labors (financial as well as "karmic") you are simply not going to sweat out getting your various projects to market.
I am not yet a Buffalo owner, but intend to be - I've stocked my paypal account in anticipation, though now I'll have to add to it. But, I look forward to having a high quality DAC as I immerse myself this time in the world of DIY. And, thanks to people ("audio heaven" aka James especially) for sharing what they have learned. It's certainly been a pleasure waiting for this project. Again thanks for putting these projects together.
Larry
Brian & Russ
My frugal nature wanted the Buffalo to remain the same price as before.
So I, too was a little disappointed that it was more expensive. But, I am amazed at how much effort you two have put into your various projects, not just the various Buffalo iterations. Your courteous replies and regular presence on this board have likely addressed and alleviated a lot of concerns. I for one would like to thank you both for all of your efforts, seen and unseen by the people on this forum. Whatever my financial concerns are, if you don't get sufficient return for your labors (financial as well as "karmic") you are simply not going to sweat out getting your various projects to market.
I am not yet a Buffalo owner, but intend to be - I've stocked my paypal account in anticipation, though now I'll have to add to it. But, I look forward to having a high quality DAC as I immerse myself this time in the world of DIY. And, thanks to people ("audio heaven" aka James especially) for sharing what they have learned. It's certainly been a pleasure waiting for this project. Again thanks for putting these projects together.
Larry
Good work guys
How are you dealing with soldering components on the back? I do it too, but find that stenciling the bottom after having soldered the top is a pain. It's largely feasible, in fact I never missed any, but it really requires to calm down. Plus the Sabre32 isn't that easy to precisely place, surface tension will put it approximately in place, mine drifted a little bit (something like 0.1mm though) and it scared me a bit. But it's fine, anyway. It requires some skills.
Happy yours already outputs sounds, I haven't sent sound in mine yet, just soldered and verified it.
Cheers,
Nicolas
P.S: For those thinking the price is not adequate, I think it is, components count is high, Sabre32 isn't exactly cheap, I use the same kind of components as you and yes, they are expensive. I think it's a correct price, at least, I don't see how I could beat it!
How are you dealing with soldering components on the back? I do it too, but find that stenciling the bottom after having soldered the top is a pain. It's largely feasible, in fact I never missed any, but it really requires to calm down. Plus the Sabre32 isn't that easy to precisely place, surface tension will put it approximately in place, mine drifted a little bit (something like 0.1mm though) and it scared me a bit. But it's fine, anyway. It requires some skills.
Happy yours already outputs sounds, I haven't sent sound in mine yet, just soldered and verified it.
Cheers,
Nicolas
P.S: For those thinking the price is not adequate, I think it is, components count is high, Sabre32 isn't exactly cheap, I use the same kind of components as you and yes, they are expensive. I think it's a correct price, at least, I don't see how I could beat it!
Buffalo latency?
Talk about the cost of the new Buffalo has me curious. What is a typical latency of DAC chips? In other words, how much might the synchronization of analog output differ among different signal types supplying the ESS chips? And more to the point, how much might output latency differ between identical signals processed by unlike DAC chips?
For example, for bi-amped channels: Would it really be a problem if the main midrange/treble "voices" ran through a superlative Buffalo and the bass signal (say, 180hz and down) originated from a much more affordable (but still quite nice!) Opus? Let's assume all are receiving time-aligned I2S.
In other applications where super fidelity would be largely imperceptible (i.e. "wasted" - for example rear channels in typical home surround systems), why not a mixed bag of DACs? Digital crossovers can time-align signals in very small increments. Wouldn't they just need good data to effect good coherence?
Any data or speculation?
Frank in Mpls.
Talk about the cost of the new Buffalo has me curious. What is a typical latency of DAC chips? In other words, how much might the synchronization of analog output differ among different signal types supplying the ESS chips? And more to the point, how much might output latency differ between identical signals processed by unlike DAC chips?
For example, for bi-amped channels: Would it really be a problem if the main midrange/treble "voices" ran through a superlative Buffalo and the bass signal (say, 180hz and down) originated from a much more affordable (but still quite nice!) Opus? Let's assume all are receiving time-aligned I2S.
In other applications where super fidelity would be largely imperceptible (i.e. "wasted" - for example rear channels in typical home surround systems), why not a mixed bag of DACs? Digital crossovers can time-align signals in very small increments. Wouldn't they just need good data to effect good coherence?
Any data or speculation?
Frank in Mpls.
Russ White said:
Hello Russ,
Ok, so you are saying the PSRR is equivalent (give or take) to the CMRR of the analog stage? Food for thought. Do you have a CMR figure for IVY?
On another note, how compatible is the new 32 bit chip with the older design ..... if one had the tools to do so, is it feasible to fit the new chip onto the older Buffalo PCB?
Thanks.
Spartacus said:
They're pin compatible.
That's what Lampizator in order to test the new chip.
Perhaps TP guys will offer Sabre32 chips in their parts bin for those of their previous customers who feel bold enough to upgrade.
TheShaman said:
They're pin compatible.
That's what Lampizator in order to test the new chip.
Perhaps TP guys will offer Sabre32 chips in their parts bin for those of their previous customers who feel bold enough to upgrade.
Cool, and thanks for the reply. It's actually very easy with a hot air gun. I don't have one, but I know someone who does .....
May need new firmware though?
TheShaman said:
They're pin compatible.
That's what Lampizator in order to test the new chip.
Perhaps TP guys will offer Sabre32 chips in their parts bin for those of their previous customers who feel bold enough to upgrade.
They could offer old boards and chips, but then you haven't got the new clock.
I don't know if they compared old and new clock with the same chip. We actually don't know the influence of the new clock. Once I had the idea to mount a better clock on the lower side of the board, very near the chip.
regards
Andre
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