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Old 4th June 2009, 09:55 AM   #451
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brgds

The fact that you compare two different dacs (same chip),
out of memory does not tell you something?
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Old 4th June 2009, 10:05 AM   #452
brgds is offline brgds  Poland
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The difference is so huge that I can't be wrong. The first one was "better" than my K2/PCM56 JVC DAC, now BUF32S is much "worse". These are not small differences in particular aspects. And the memory imperfection or defect is not an issue here for sure.
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Old 4th June 2009, 10:24 AM   #453
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Default Ringing

Hello Andy:

Thanks for posting the scope pictures. You have far more ringing on that 1kHz square wave than I would expect to see. There was a previous post on either this thread or one of the original Buffalo threads that showed a much cleaner square wave. Search for "Gibbs" because I think the Gibbs phenomenon was discussed.

How are you conducting the test? What is the amplitude of the input signal waveform? What is the scale of the picture? Where are you placing the probe? What load are you driving? More details will be helpful.

What do your supply voltages look like on the scope? You will have to switch to AC coupling to use measure at high sensitivity.

I will try to put the scope on my Buffalo32S later today or tomorrow for comparison.
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Old 4th June 2009, 10:35 AM   #454
fff0 is offline fff0  Singapore
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Hi Russ,

Are you planning to build a version that is similar to the earlier Buffalo ? Or is it still as described before?
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Old 4th June 2009, 11:39 AM   #455
brgds is offline brgds  Poland
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Default Re: Ringing

Quote:
Originally posted by wackyterbacky
Hello Andy:

Thanks for posting the scope pictures. You have far more ringing on that 1kHz square wave than I would expect to see. There was a previous post on either this thread or one of the original Buffalo threads that showed a much cleaner square wave. Search for "Gibbs" because I think the Gibbs phenomenon was discussed.

How are you conducting the test? What is the amplitude of the input signal waveform? What is the scale of the picture? Where are you placing the probe? What load are you driving? More details will be helpful.

What do your supply voltages look like on the scope? You will have to switch to AC coupling to use measure at high sensitivity.

I will try to put the scope on my Buffalo32S later today or tomorrow for comparison.
The signal amplitude, both sine and squre, is 5Vpp, as the result of "0 dB" level recorded at my test CD. The probe is placed at BUF SE output. The load is passive pre AudioSynthesis, ca 15k input/output impedance, further feeding AN monoblocks.
I'm going to take a closer look at psu voltages as you suggest.
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Old 4th June 2009, 12:08 PM   #456
leo is offline leo  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally posted by Russ White


Leo, interesting theory, but there is one huge problem. Far more people report exactly the opposite experience.

Those SVP caps are actually purpose designed exactly for the application we are using them in.

I presently had some professional folks over who are interested in my design. Lots of comments, but absolutely none of them contained "dull".
Hi Russ,


Well its just advice I was told, we could turn this into a cap debate but its not my intention , all I'm doing is trying to help and not to stand on toes, unfortunately there is a few who are craving more dynamics and life, its basically giving those people some idea's what to try if the sound does not suit them, as I'm sure your aware theres more than this forum discussing your dac and people DO tend to post more PM's than posts on public threads

As said earlier I've currently no problem with the sound, I've played about with a lot of stuff and heard a range of dacs , both Buffalo's came out high regarding SQ, beauty with diy is that we can tweak until it suits

Cheers,
Leo
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Old 4th June 2009, 12:29 PM   #457
leo is offline leo  United Kingdom
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Default Re: Re: Ringing

Quote:
Originally posted by brgds


The signal amplitude, both sine and squre, is 5Vpp, as the result of "0 dB" level recorded at my test CD. The probe is placed at BUF SE output. The load is passive pre AudioSynthesis, ca 15k input/output impedance, further feeding AN monoblocks.
I'm going to take a closer look at psu voltages as you suggest.

Heres what I get 1k 0db, SE output


Buffalo32s

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 4th June 2009, 12:46 PM   #458
brgds is offline brgds  Poland
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Leo,
thanks for checking, looks almost identical, frequency ca 20k; your oscillations amplitude seems to be even bigger comparing to main signal.
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Old 4th June 2009, 02:34 PM   #459
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Quote:
Originally posted by glt


In audio, I think burn-in happens inside your ear :-).

Ahh - more psychological phenomena misinterpreted as physical phenomena. Pretty much what I thought.

Perhaps the people describing the Buffalo 32s as "dull" are simply registering an absence of the (pleasing?) distortion that they had grown accustomed to from other, less accurate DACs?
Food for thought...
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Old 4th June 2009, 03:08 PM   #460
glt is offline glt  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by Duffy Moon



Ahh - more psychological phenomena misinterpreted as physical phenomena. Pretty much what I thought.

Perhaps the people describing the Buffalo 32s as "dull" are simply registering an absence of the (pleasing?) distortion that they had grown accustomed to from other, less accurate DACs?
Food for thought...
The only type of burn-in I've experienced is with people voices: some voices I get to like more (they sound more gentle, soothing, etc) as I get to "know" and hear that voice more. The opposite also happens :-). But seriously, if burn-in is a physical phenomenon, then why is it always for the better?. If you look at a piece of silicon integrated circuits, the more you use, the more defects are created into the substrate increasing the level of traps. It is never the case where use will result in a more pure silicon substrate. (Granted those impurities are below the level that they will cause any problems, but stressing it -burn in in an oven- will eventually cause failure)
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