Hi,
Generally, my 12B4 preamp sounds so wonderful, particularly crystal-clear high ends and tubey metalic/wind. But the 12B4 seems to offer less "seductive" mid-range, on certain frequecy bands.
I'm looking for a tube that can offer similar sonics but with "better" mid-range.
Any suggestion ? I don't limit only DIY equipment but the commercial tube preamps I've auditioned can't match the 12B4 in that regard.
Thank you.
Generally, my 12B4 preamp sounds so wonderful, particularly crystal-clear high ends and tubey metalic/wind. But the 12B4 seems to offer less "seductive" mid-range, on certain frequecy bands.
I'm looking for a tube that can offer similar sonics but with "better" mid-range.
Any suggestion ? I don't limit only DIY equipment but the commercial tube preamps I've auditioned can't match the 12B4 in that regard.
Thank you.
Bordins,
I don’t what your 12B4 schematic looks like, but a lot of the sound character will be due to coupling caps, cathode bypass caps, plate loads and power supply behavior. (This is also true of the Aikido or of any preamp). You can play with these variables to tweak the sound. Sometimes we’re tempted to ascribe the sound of a device to its tube type only, and while that certainly matters a great deal, so do these other things.
Having said that, I can second the suggestion to also try the 5687 (a whole new circuit though).
I don’t what your 12B4 schematic looks like, but a lot of the sound character will be due to coupling caps, cathode bypass caps, plate loads and power supply behavior. (This is also true of the Aikido or of any preamp). You can play with these variables to tweak the sound. Sometimes we’re tempted to ascribe the sound of a device to its tube type only, and while that certainly matters a great deal, so do these other things.
Having said that, I can second the suggestion to also try the 5687 (a whole new circuit though).
Hi burnedfingers & Brian,
My 12B4 preamp has premium capacitors and hybrid diode-tube rectifier. The "right" combination rectifier still makes perfect stunning drums while maintains lovely resonant guitar strings.
I find similar sonics on other 12B4 preamps using cheaper capacitors that make me believe this is 12B4's signature.
I wonder which Aikido threads to start with. There are plenty of them. TubeCad offers the whole amplifier. I need only a line stage. My amp is still SS.
Thanks a lot.
My 12B4 preamp has premium capacitors and hybrid diode-tube rectifier. The "right" combination rectifier still makes perfect stunning drums while maintains lovely resonant guitar strings.
I find similar sonics on other 12B4 preamps using cheaper capacitors that make me believe this is 12B4's signature.
I wonder which Aikido threads to start with. There are plenty of them.
TubeCad offers the whole amplifier. I need only a line stage. My amp is still SS.Thanks a lot.
The 12B4 is ultra low rp. Tubes like that, 6H30Π etc. always sound more 'transparent & technically correct'. The lower the impedances the higher the currents, the closer to how ss works minus the solid physics and pentode like curves. The high tension low ma world has a distinctive signature opposed to lower tension high ma world. Its like Conrad Johnson vs Audio Reasearch kind of comparison. For a system to contain the transparency and not verge to sterile, all components, cables & speakers must be low fatigue. To me there is ground in attributing 'coldness' to the 12B4 device when dropped in a non ready system, akin to dropping a Benchmark DAC1 in a non neutral easily challenged hi-fi system. such devices are correct, yet demanding.
Hi salas,
My gear should offer good transparancy: Scanspeak Revelator 18W8531G00 & D2904-7100, Oritek X-2 cable (the most transparant cable I have ever heard !!), Kimber 4VS speaker cables, bi-polar transistor-based 300W SS amp.
At first I thought the 12B4 is very transparant as many have said, but the tubey sounds make me believe it adds something, very nice thing though. The "flaw" are at certain mid-range bands. As I mentioned, I hear it in all systems using 12B4.
My gear should offer good transparancy: Scanspeak Revelator 18W8531G00 & D2904-7100, Oritek X-2 cable (the most transparant cable I have ever heard !!), Kimber 4VS speaker cables, bi-polar transistor-based 300W SS amp.
At first I thought the 12B4 is very transparant as many have said, but the tubey sounds make me believe it adds something, very nice thing though. The "flaw" are at certain mid-range bands. As I mentioned, I hear it in all systems using 12B4.
To go a step better than the 12b4 I suggest you go into the world of DHTs (Directly Heated Triodes).
You can try any of 01A, 12A, 30, 31, 1G4, 1H4 - all good. To my ears they all sound better than 12b4 and some of them sound considerably better. I have a 12b4 preamp but never use it, and one day I'll change the tubes to DHTs.
You will need a good filament supply and a very solid base to put the tube sockets on to avoid microphonics. You'll find this kind of information on other threads if you do a search, or I can email you a schematic. Andy
You can try any of 01A, 12A, 30, 31, 1G4, 1H4 - all good. To my ears they all sound better than 12b4 and some of them sound considerably better. I have a 12b4 preamp but never use it, and one day I'll change the tubes to DHTs.
You will need a good filament supply and a very solid base to put the tube sockets on to avoid microphonics. You'll find this kind of information on other threads if you do a search, or I can email you a schematic. Andy
12B4 v.s. 5687
Aletheian, I checked with my friend who built the preamp for me. The resisters should be Dale (metalic).
I also found some opinions about 12B4 v.s. 5687:
Burnedfingers, I found your post saying 12B4 is bertter than 5687. Was it before you knew Aikido with 5687 ?
aletheian said:
Aletheian, I checked with my friend who built the preamp for me. The resisters should be Dale (metalic).
I also found some opinions about 12B4 v.s. 5687:
Burnedfingers, I found your post saying 12B4 is bertter than 5687.
Was it before you knew Aikido with 5687 ?bordins
That post was made in 2004. Since then I have re visited some of the designs that I played with before. In late 2006 I re made a 5687 line stage with CCS and regulated supply that will take my 12B4 for a trip to the curb.
With respect to the Aikido.... It is vastly superior in my humble opinion to any 12B4 that I have ever heard or probably will hear.
With respect to Frank... He has his opinions and others have theirs including myself.
Part of what you are hearing is dependant on you choice in speakers. How flat are they? Have you bothered to plot their response? Until you bother to look at your speaker response you have no way of knowing if it might be your speakers that are responsible for coloration of your sound.
I'll show you my plot if you show me yours
That post was made in 2004. Since then I have re visited some of the designs that I played with before. In late 2006 I re made a 5687 line stage with CCS and regulated supply that will take my 12B4 for a trip to the curb.
With respect to the Aikido.... It is vastly superior in my humble opinion to any 12B4 that I have ever heard or probably will hear.
With respect to Frank... He has his opinions and others have theirs including myself.
Part of what you are hearing is dependant on you choice in speakers. How flat are they? Have you bothered to plot their response? Until you bother to look at your speaker response you have no way of knowing if it might be your speakers that are responsible for coloration of your sound.
I'll show you my plot if you show me yours
Originally posted by burnedfingers Until you bother to look at your speaker response you have no way of knowing if it might be your speakers that are responsible for coloration of your sound.
I'll show you my plot if you show me yours
Arrh !!! It's time for me to make my hands dirty. Please let me know how to do mine. I'm dumb.
I could explain but then again I don't type that well and I misspell even worse. It would take me too long to explain.
Your best bet since I doubt that you have the necessary equipment is to call your local Hi-Fi shop and ask them to do it for you.
It will open your eyes with respect to the performance of your speakers. It could possibly explain what you think you might be hearing.
Your best bet since I doubt that you have the necessary equipment is to call your local Hi-Fi shop and ask them to do it for you.
It will open your eyes with respect to the performance of your speakers. It could possibly explain what you think you might be hearing.
I was to do it a few years ago to inspect frequency responses of my tranmission line speakers but did not have time to actually start. My friend recommended me a decent Sony clip microphone, very good S/N, even better than $300+ professional mic. He showed me the FFT plot on his notebook and the idle signal was quite low.burnedfingers said:
I can have access to audio analysis software. The only thing I'm not sure is what source frequency, a pink noise CD ?, to feed my amps and how to set up the calibration and do the recording.
I just need a brief guided instruction.
Or is it available somewhere ? It would be fun to learn.
bordins said:
I was to do it a few years ago to inspect frequency responses of my tranmission line speakers but did not have time to actually start. My friend recommended me a decent Sony clip microphone, very good S/N, even better than $300+ professional mic. He showed me the FFT plot on his notebook and the idle signal was quite low.
I can have access to audio analysis software. The only thing I'm not sure is what source frequency, a pink noise CD ?, to feed my amps and how to set up the calibration and do the recording.
I just need a brief guided instruction.
if you poke around the DIY T-line speaker pages, you can find some links to decent measuring software, and those cheapie Behringer pencil mics have a nice Panasonic capsule in them... good bang for the buck. I actually use a few VST plugins for analysis in conjunction with a SPL meter hacked into a reference mic to calibrate the response of my studio monitor setup.
You can download a free trial of SpectraFoo that will run for 30 days... that might get you in the ballpark if you have a decent soundcard. My interface runs at 192kHz/24bit, so the SN is pretty good.
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