Hey guys (and girls),
I am trying my darndest to become an "expert" at reading a schematic, but I am having some issues. Particularly, when I see the actual amplifier section of the design, I am constantly wondering where the power supply is (and sometimes, how its wired to the output transformer)...Can anyone point me to a tube-amp specific site where I can see a complete schematic showing power supply, amplifier section and output?
But, thanks to all of the brilliance here, I am at least ready to define my project.
I would like to build an amp to meet the following characteristics:
Type: 2 channel stereo Tube Amp
Output: 10W per channel
Speakers: (relatively inefficient) Wharfedale Diamond 8.2 (86 dB/1W/1m)
preamp: Harman Kardon Citation 21 preamp
Sources: CD player
After all the reading (The DIY handbook, thanks to Ryder especially, and the posts put up on the board), I think that I am nearly ready to get started.
I am trying my darndest to become an "expert" at reading a schematic, but I am having some issues. Particularly, when I see the actual amplifier section of the design, I am constantly wondering where the power supply is (and sometimes, how its wired to the output transformer)...Can anyone point me to a tube-amp specific site where I can see a complete schematic showing power supply, amplifier section and output?
But, thanks to all of the brilliance here, I am at least ready to define my project.
I would like to build an amp to meet the following characteristics:
Type: 2 channel stereo Tube Amp
Output: 10W per channel
Speakers: (relatively inefficient) Wharfedale Diamond 8.2 (86 dB/1W/1m)
preamp: Harman Kardon Citation 21 preamp
Sources: CD player
After all the reading (The DIY handbook, thanks to Ryder especially, and the posts put up on the board), I think that I am nearly ready to get started.
10W
Hi,
Unless you're living in a tiny room 10W is too few for comfort.
I ran a PP EL84 amp (15W) on my 92db/W speakers in a smallish living room and easily ran out of steam...
It's your call though and I can easily refer to a couple of 10 to 15 W circuits on the web.
Do you have a budget in mind?
Cheers,
Hi,
Unless you're living in a tiny room 10W is too few for comfort.
I ran a PP EL84 amp (15W) on my 92db/W speakers in a smallish living room and easily ran out of steam...
It's your call though and I can easily refer to a couple of 10 to 15 W circuits on the web.
Do you have a budget in mind?
Cheers,
OK
Hi Frank,
Oops...yes, about 15W would be necessary, since I figure the loudest I intend to drive the system is about 90-95dB (or about 8-16W by my calculations).
I am really intrigued by the possibility of SE but it looks like PP might be my choice. My budget is moderate...Less than say $200 for all the parts. Based on the catalog at Antique Electronic Supply and a visit to Triode Electronics, I <i>think</i> this might be possible.
Any help with reading the schemas as well? Its like I look and I see these arrows or dots where i <i>think</i> a power supply should be...
Feedback?
Hi Frank,
Oops...yes, about 15W would be necessary, since I figure the loudest I intend to drive the system is about 90-95dB (or about 8-16W by my calculations).
I am really intrigued by the possibility of SE but it looks like PP might be my choice. My budget is moderate...Less than say $200 for all the parts. Based on the catalog at Antique Electronic Supply and a visit to Triode Electronics, I <i>think</i> this might be possible.
Any help with reading the schemas as well? Its like I look and I see these arrows or dots where i <i>think</i> a power supply should be...
Feedback?
10W will be enough to start with. With more power, you need bigger transformers, complex circuits and tubes which cost lots more... to paraphrase Bill Gates, 10W should be enough for anyone!
You could look at a simple EL34 or KT66 or 6L6 Single ended amp, or maybe a 2A3 single ended (Sovtek 2A3 can be run at 30 Watts dissipation ~= 10W audio) if you wanted a triode amp.
For transformers you could use the 125ESE (cheap and choice)
Here is a good site for schematics of all kinds. I have made a couple of these.
Good luck!
You could look at a simple EL34 or KT66 or 6L6 Single ended amp, or maybe a 2A3 single ended (Sovtek 2A3 can be run at 30 Watts dissipation ~= 10W audio) if you wanted a triode amp.
For transformers you could use the 125ESE (cheap and choice)
Here is a good site for schematics of all kinds. I have made a couple of these.
Good luck!
Whichever is better sounding...
Dhaen,
Thanks for the input. I would rather have SE, but if PP is going to provide nice sound, and be less expensive, then I will try that...
As it stands, though, I still need some help with the schematics, and some design advice, but I think that I know enough to at least start moving forward.
Shifty -- thanks for the link!
Regards,
Tony
Dhaen,
Thanks for the input. I would rather have SE, but if PP is going to provide nice sound, and be less expensive, then I will try that...
As it stands, though, I still need some help with the schematics, and some design advice, but I think that I know enough to at least start moving forward.
Shifty -- thanks for the link!
Regards,
Tony
Ideas
Dhaen,
For my first project, I just expect the thing to work and not blow up on me. I would like it to sound good, but it appears that from what everyone is saying, I can always deconstruct the project and replace pieces with better sounding (read more expensive) components. So I will start there...
Now as to the schematics, do you have any tips for me? I understand enough to get started but any other advice would be cool...
Regards,
Tony
Dhaen,
For my first project, I just expect the thing to work
and not blow up on me. I would like it to sound good, but it appears that from what everyone is saying, I can always deconstruct the project and replace pieces with better sounding (read more expensive) components. So I will start there...Now as to the schematics, do you have any tips for me? I understand enough to get started but any other advice would be cool...
Regards,
Tony
Hi Tony,
How about this:
***************************************************
Disclaimer:
The voltages used in valve (tube) equipment makes DIY potentially very dangerous. Electric shocks are life threatening.
Do not work with this kind of equipment unless you are fully conversant with the safety proceedures associated with high voltages.
Even though you may be conversant, users and other people in the vicinity may not be. These people are your responsibility.
Consider your construction carefully, and be sure to comply with safety regulations active in your country.
Especially important are earthing, exposed parts, creepage distances, and flammabiliy. This list is by no means exhaustive.
***************************************************
Sorry to be a bore! But it is important.
Now, the possibilities out there are (almost) infinite.
But your budget (whoever you are) isn't.
You are lucky to be living in the land of "budget iron", and easy mail order access to parts.
Let's start here:
Have you decided how many watts you need yet?
How about this:
***************************************************
Disclaimer:
The voltages used in valve (tube) equipment makes DIY potentially very dangerous. Electric shocks are life threatening.
Do not work with this kind of equipment unless you are fully conversant with the safety proceedures associated with high voltages.
Even though you may be conversant, users and other people in the vicinity may not be. These people are your responsibility.
Consider your construction carefully, and be sure to comply with safety regulations active in your country.
Especially important are earthing, exposed parts, creepage distances, and flammabiliy. This list is by no means exhaustive.
***************************************************
Sorry to be a bore! But it is important.
Now, the possibilities out there are (almost) infinite.
But your budget (whoever you are) isn't.
You are lucky to be living in the land of "budget iron", and easy mail order access to parts.
Let's start here:
Have you decided how many watts you need yet?
Thank you for your advice
Thanks for the input...Yeah I am very aware that I can be killed by the voltages involved. Many of the posts that I have seen stress this. It does scare me, but I have read enough to see that I have to be VERY CAREFUL, especially with discharging caps and not "experimenting" with charged devices or plugged-in circuits.
Now on to the fun stuff:
I wish to build an amp with about 15W-20W output. Topology is whatever is least costly, with the potential for good results. Looks like right now PP. Thoughts?
Next questions?
Thanks for the input...Yeah I am very aware that I can be killed by the voltages involved. Many of the posts that I have seen stress this. It does scare me, but I have read enough to see that I have to be VERY CAREFUL, especially with discharging caps and not "experimenting" with charged devices or plugged-in circuits.
Now on to the fun stuff:
I wish to build an amp with about 15W-20W output. Topology is whatever is least costly, with the potential for good results. Looks like right now PP. Thoughts?
Next questions?
Tony,
These are my idea's that first come to mind:
15-20 Watts:
Low budget: Push pull.
You might get this power out of a pair of triode connected pentodes such as EL34 or 6550.
High budget: PSE
Parallel connectd 300B
Mid budget: PSE
Parallel connected 6550
But you might prefer the Push Pull....
Everyone else will have their own ideas...
Cheers,
Well that's good. You'll respect it.
These are my idea's that first come to mind:
15-20 Watts:
Low budget: Push pull.
You might get this power out of a pair of triode connected pentodes such as EL34 or 6550.
High budget: PSE
Parallel connectd 300B
Mid budget: PSE
Parallel connected 6550
But you might prefer the Push Pull....
Everyone else will have their own ideas...
Cheers,
Hummm.....
Some basic issues before we get looking for a schematic? ?
Given: Speakers: (relatively inefficient) Wharfedale Diamond 8.2 (86 dB/1W/1m)
Comments above:
1)10W will be enough to start with
2) Unless you're living in a tiny room 10W is too few for comfort
Who is right here? I'm a bit of a beginner myself but I go for more horsepower. I think you are asking to be disappointed with any SE project you can do as a first time project (not par optubes) Therefore, we are looking for a PP schematic.
I do no think the general advice in the link below is far off re power requirements. http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/sets.html
Tstrong, we are dealing with exponential not linear relations. If a SET is not enough a few more watts does not amount to much. It takes almost 10 times the watts (10 dB) to sound twice as loud. So a 80W amp is only twice as loud as a 8W amp. Going from an 8w to 15 w may seem like a lot but it really isn’t.
Don't we have to answer the power issue before we look for schematics? If the speakers are going to be kept I would say go for 30-50w min. That is just IMHO
Said above by Tstrong: My budget is moderate...Less than say $200 for all the parts.
I haven't studied this price range much. But, generally when I see an amp worth building for this amount it is by working with what is on hand. Parts put together from various sources w/ a fair amount of salvaged parts (taken for next to nothing from old consoles off ebay or something) but I am not that experienced here. Can you put together a listenable PP for $200 having to pay retail for parts?
I’ve heard this amp
( http://www.inanna.com/~calhoun/s5amp/index.html ) kit for $140 and while it is an ok first project or something I would say save a couple hundred more bucks up for your project if you are trying to make something you plan on keeping.
One you get to that price range there are lots of fairly good kits available.
Gabe, who posts here, has a kit in the 15 w range if that is what you are looking at but it is about twice your budget. http://gabevee.tripod.com/mag1515.html
I would agree with Frank and suggest a kit the first time out. There is enough to keep straight the first time like not killing yourself as Dhaen mentions. If you get a kit the physical layout has also been considered which is another thing Dhaen mentions.
Another idea is to watch ebay for an old dyna st-70 or Eico and mod it but this would put you over your budget too.
I’d really have to look for a good PP at $200. No one has come up with one yet maybe because it is quite hard to do.
Craig
Some basic issues before we get looking for a schematic? ?
Given: Speakers: (relatively inefficient) Wharfedale Diamond 8.2 (86 dB/1W/1m)
Comments above:
1)10W will be enough to start with
2) Unless you're living in a tiny room 10W is too few for comfort
Who is right here? I'm a bit of a beginner myself but I go for more horsepower. I think you are asking to be disappointed with any SE project you can do as a first time project (not par optubes) Therefore, we are looking for a PP schematic.
I do no think the general advice in the link below is far off re power requirements. http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/sets.html
Tstrong, we are dealing with exponential not linear relations. If a SET is not enough a few more watts does not amount to much. It takes almost 10 times the watts (10 dB) to sound twice as loud. So a 80W amp is only twice as loud as a 8W amp. Going from an 8w to 15 w may seem like a lot but it really isn’t.
Don't we have to answer the power issue before we look for schematics? If the speakers are going to be kept I would say go for 30-50w min. That is just IMHO
Said above by Tstrong: My budget is moderate...Less than say $200 for all the parts.
I haven't studied this price range much. But, generally when I see an amp worth building for this amount it is by working with what is on hand. Parts put together from various sources w/ a fair amount of salvaged parts (taken for next to nothing from old consoles off ebay or something) but I am not that experienced here. Can you put together a listenable PP for $200 having to pay retail for parts?
I’ve heard this amp
( http://www.inanna.com/~calhoun/s5amp/index.html ) kit for $140 and while it is an ok first project or something I would say save a couple hundred more bucks up for your project if you are trying to make something you plan on keeping.
One you get to that price range there are lots of fairly good kits available.
Gabe, who posts here, has a kit in the 15 w range if that is what you are looking at but it is about twice your budget. http://gabevee.tripod.com/mag1515.html
I would agree with Frank and suggest a kit the first time out. There is enough to keep straight the first time like not killing yourself as Dhaen mentions. If you get a kit the physical layout has also been considered which is another thing Dhaen mentions.
Another idea is to watch ebay for an old dyna st-70 or Eico and mod it but this would put you over your budget too.
I’d really have to look for a good PP at $200. No one has come up with one yet maybe because it is quite hard to do.
Craig
OK...
I like the idea of the PSE using 6550's...I understand from other posts, that I can eventually chain multiple tubes (albeit with other modifications) to achieve higher outputs.
OK...that settled, I am ready to move to the next step...Fully understanding the schematics, like for instance, I can never fully understand how different areas of the circuit are powered...I can see that the power transformer has multiple windings, but when the schematic has different sections (ie, not shown all wired together), I get somewhat confused. I'd like to get that down prior to beginning any project..
I like the idea of the PSE using 6550's...I understand from other posts, that I can eventually chain multiple tubes (albeit with other modifications) to achieve higher outputs.
OK...that settled, I am ready to move to the next step...Fully understanding the schematics, like for instance, I can never fully understand how different areas of the circuit are powered...I can see that the power transformer has multiple windings, but when the schematic has different sections (ie, not shown all wired together), I get somewhat confused. I'd like to get that down prior to beginning any project..
Tony,
Slow down!
There are issues with expandability, that complicate.
Read Ryder's comments well.
I had not noticed how low your budget was, until he reminded me.
Ryder,
Could Tony be the person to try your resource guide on, or is it too early yet?
I've been looking through. It's good so far.
Cheers,
Slow down!
There are issues with expandability, that complicate.
Read Ryder's comments well.
I had not noticed how low your budget was, until he reminded me.
Ryder,
Could Tony be the person to try your resource guide on, or is it too early yet?
I've been looking through. It's good so far.
Cheers,
OK, sorry
OK, I know that I am moving quickly, but...Trust me I know that I may have some issues with expanding the project later, but I am no so worried about that right now...
I have the DIY Resource guide already and have been looking through it, to great positive effect.
Any other resources?
OK, I know that I am moving quickly, but...Trust me I know that I may have some issues with expanding the project later, but I am no so worried about that right now...
I have the DIY Resource guide already and have been looking through it, to great positive effect.
Any other resources?
Tony, I have one of the S-5 (11BM8) amps that I built just for fun and it sounds nice, not the greatest amp in the world but very good for the price.
Ryder is right about the amout of power you will need for the speakers your talking about. I live in the Chicago area and if you would like we could get together and you could find out what an 8 watt PP tube amp sounds like with your speakers.
I would also suggest that you look around for an old tube intergrated amp. They can often be rebuilt and sound very good or be a source of cheep parts. I could bring one of these to try too.
It's up to you, email me if you would like to do this.
Later
Bruce
PS week ends are best for me.
Ryder is right about the amout of power you will need for the speakers your talking about. I live in the Chicago area and if you would like we could get together and you could find out what an 8 watt PP tube amp sounds like with your speakers.
I would also suggest that you look around for an old tube intergrated amp. They can often be rebuilt and sound very good or be a source of cheep parts. I could bring one of these to try too.
It's up to you, email me if you would like to do this.
Later
Bruce
PS week ends are best for me.
Good response
Thanks HDTV! I will likely take you up on the offer...Let me check my schedule...
I am reviewing information from Ryder's guide and looking in particular about things showing circuits and their connections to the various components.
If you have any advice in this area, your suggestions would be appreciated
Thanks HDTV! I will likely take you up on the offer...Let me check my schedule...
I am reviewing information from Ryder's guide and looking in particular about things showing circuits and their connections to the various components.
If you have any advice in this area, your suggestions would be appreciated
Hello,
Here is a little different amplifier, and it is very clearly drawn.
Hopeing it would help to someone.
Best regards,
Kristijan Kljucaric
http://web.vip.hr/pcb-design.vip
Here is a little different amplifier, and it is very clearly drawn.
Hopeing it would help to someone.
Best regards,
Kristijan Kljucaric
http://web.vip.hr/pcb-design.vip
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