More Aikido questions...........

Roger Hill · 9th January 2007, 01:15 AM

getting ready to order parts for an Aikido linestage. This one will use two mono 9-pin Aikido boards from John Broskie. I plan to use 12BH7A's in both input and output positions simply because they are, far and away, the best soundiing tube in my scratch-built foreplay. Plan to use a cLCLC power supply, either single or dual mono, more on that later, plus a regulated 12 Volt filament supply. PSUD tells me to expect about 320 Volts B+. Now, a few questions:

First, Just JB recommends a cathode resistor of 523 Ohms for the 12BH7A in output position with a B+ of 300 Volts. However, he also recommends that this resistor be in the range of 200-470 Ohms with a B+ of 300 volts. Seems to me that this must be a typo and he really means 323 Ohms. With 15 ma/300 Volts, his table shows 267 Ohms. This value puts the bias at about 4 volts which seems reasonable for approximately 150 Volts across the tube. The 523 Ohm resistor would put the bias at 8 Volts for 15 ma, which is more consistent with 230 Volts across the tube, which isn't going to happen with a 300 Volt B+. Anyone else checked this?

Secondly, everything I read says that the 12BH7A sounds best run hot, about 15 ma. Any reason (other than tube life) not to run the Voltage Amplifier tube at 15 ma?

Thirdly, any recommendations for the "High Quality" cathode and grid stopper resistors? Has anyone tried the miniature Ohmite 1 watt non-inductive wirewound resistors that Digi-Key sells? At about a buck each, the price is right. Has anyone tried LED bias in the Aikido? It certainly is an improvement in my Foreplay notwithstanding the fact that many say LED bias sounds worse than a good resistor.

Fourthly, I have a beautiful pair of Freed potted 540 Volt ct 70 ma plus 6.3 volt 6 amp power transformers, including electrostatic shield between primary and secondaries. I think that one of these would handle a B+ draw of about 60 ma, but will I have better headroom, dynamics or generally good JuJu if I go fully dual mono and use one per channel?

Thanks in advance for your help, advice and suggestions,

Roger Hill

SY · 9th January 2007, 02:43 AM

523 is an E96 value. 323 isn't. I'd go with 523; worst case, things won't bias optimally and you have to change the resistor. It's not a smoke fault.

LED bias is not appropriate for this circuit.

Original Burnedfingers · 9th January 2007, 02:50 AM

Aince this thread says "More Aikido questions" May I?

Has anyone made a 6SN7/6AS7 Aikido ? or for that matter a

....../ 6AS7 Aikido?

jayme · 9th January 2007, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Roger Hill

I think that one of these would handle a B+ draw of about 60 ma, but will I have better headroom, dynamics or generally good JuJu if I go fully dual mono and use one per channel?

Since this circuit is basically a fixed current draw and you won't be experiencing the large draw swings of a power amp, I personally think fully dual-mono is not necessary.

That said, I saw a big gain in channel separation from paralleling the last stage of my cLCLC (cLC into an LC per channel). Just remember that the Ls and Cs add together when simulating it in PSUD.

Quote:

Originally posted by burnedfingers
Aince this thread says "More Aikido questions" May I?

Has anyone made a 6SN7/6AS7 Aikido ? or for that matter a

....../ 6AS7 Aikido?

Ha! I have some 6080s sitting here, but I like the sound of the 6SN7/6SN7 so much that I am wary of experimenting...

Roger Hill · 9th January 2007, 08:49 PM

Hi Sy:

Absolutely believe you. Now, please explain what it is that makes this circuit unsuitable for LED bias, lest I be inclined toward letting the smoke out of something in the future. Thanks,

Roger Hill

SY · 9th January 2007, 09:12 PM

You should just accept everything I say without question.

Actually, I think JB may have discussed this in one of his articles, though he probably talked about bypass caps rather than LEDs. Basically, the circuit relies on the symmetry between top and bottom tubes. So if you were to bias the bottom with an LED, you'd need to do the same for the top. Now... think about where the top tube gets its signal. That's right, from the voltage induced across its cathode resistor. If there's an LED there, the AC voltage between grid and cathode is zero and the top tube doesn't get any signal.

Roger Hill · 10th January 2007, 12:41 AM

Well, Duh!!! That makes sense. Thanks, Sy.

Roger Hill

Original Burnedfingers · 10th January 2007, 10:42 AM

Quote:

You should just accept everything I say without question.

I do oh great master....

SY · 10th January 2007, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by burnedfingers

I do oh great master....

If I can figure out how to get cute young girls to say that, I'll be a happy guy.

9th January 2007, 01:15 AM	#1
Roger Hill diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Colorado Springs	More Aikido questions........... getting ready to order parts for an Aikido linestage. This one will use two mono 9-pin Aikido boards from John Broskie. I plan to use 12BH7A's in both input and output positions simply because they are, far and away, the best soundiing tube in my scratch-built foreplay. Plan to use a cLCLC power supply, either single or dual mono, more on that later, plus a regulated 12 Volt filament supply. PSUD tells me to expect about 320 Volts B+. Now, a few questions: First, Just JB recommends a cathode resistor of 523 Ohms for the 12BH7A in output position with a B+ of 300 Volts. However, he also recommends that this resistor be in the range of 200-470 Ohms with a B+ of 300 volts. Seems to me that this must be a typo and he really means 323 Ohms. With 15 ma/300 Volts, his table shows 267 Ohms. This value puts the bias at about 4 volts which seems reasonable for approximately 150 Volts across the tube. The 523 Ohm resistor would put the bias at 8 Volts for 15 ma, which is more consistent with 230 Volts across the tube, which isn't going to happen with a 300 Volt B+. Anyone else checked this? Secondly, everything I read says that the 12BH7A sounds best run hot, about 15 ma. Any reason (other than tube life) not to run the Voltage Amplifier tube at 15 ma? Thirdly, any recommendations for the "High Quality" cathode and grid stopper resistors? Has anyone tried the miniature Ohmite 1 watt non-inductive wirewound resistors that Digi-Key sells? At about a buck each, the price is right. Has anyone tried LED bias in the Aikido? It certainly is an improvement in my Foreplay notwithstanding the fact that many say LED bias sounds worse than a good resistor. Fourthly, I have a beautiful pair of Freed potted 540 Volt ct 70 ma plus 6.3 volt 6 amp power transformers, including electrostatic shield between primary and secondaries. I think that one of these would handle a B+ draw of about 60 ma, but will I have better headroom, dynamics or generally good JuJu if I go fully dual mono and use one per channel? Thanks in advance for your help, advice and suggestions, Roger Hill

9th January 2007, 02:43 AM	#2
SY diyAudio Moderator Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Austin, TX Blog Entries: 1	523 is an E96 value. 323 isn't. I'd go with 523; worst case, things won't bias optimally and you have to change the resistor. It's not a smoke fault. LED bias is not appropriate for this circuit. __________________ “Listening to records is like ****ing a picture of Brigitte Bardot.” - Sergiu Celibidache

9th January 2007, 09:12 PM	#6
SY diyAudio Moderator Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Austin, TX Blog Entries: 1	You should just accept everything I say without question. Actually, I think JB may have discussed this in one of his articles, though he probably talked about bypass caps rather than LEDs. Basically, the circuit relies on the symmetry between top and bottom tubes. So if you were to bias the bottom with an LED, you'd need to do the same for the top. Now... think about where the top tube gets its signal. That's right, from the voltage induced across its cathode resistor. If there's an LED there, the AC voltage between grid and cathode is zero and the top tube doesn't get any signal. __________________ “Listening to records is like ****ing a picture of Brigitte Bardot.” - Sergiu Celibidache

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9th January 2007, 02:50 AM	#3
Original Burnedfingers diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2002	Aince this thread says "More Aikido questions" May I? Has anyone made a 6SN7/6AS7 Aikido ? or for that matter a ....../ 6AS7 Aikido?

9th January 2007, 08:49 PM	#5
Roger Hill diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Colorado Springs	Hi Sy: Absolutely believe you. Now, please explain what it is that makes this circuit unsuitable for LED bias, lest I be inclined toward letting the smoke out of something in the future. Thanks, Roger Hill

10th January 2007, 12:41 AM	#7
Roger Hill diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Colorado Springs	Well, Duh!!! That makes sense. Thanks, Sy. Roger Hill

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