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-   -   Air Vane RIAA Tuning Question (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/92936-air-vane-riaa-tuning-question.html)

soulmerchant 27th December 2006 04:16 PM

Air Vane RIAA Tuning Question
 
Hi all,

I searched this topic, and only found a small reference to it so far.

In a previous post I shared the schematic of a very nice grant phono amplifier (ca. 1986) that I recently got for free and refurbished.

The schematic:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attac...postid=1037705

I've made a few small changes to it thanks to some kind advice from this board. :D

It now sounds superb, and with a nice step up transformer like a stevens and billington tx-103 it frankly blows away the stock version of the ear834p.

I like it so much that I have started to build a mono version (just for mono playback). This is where it gets a bit silly though...

Many of old mono records were not mastered to the same standardised RIAA curve. Some were done to completely other curves, and 78's are a completely other story...

Ok, you're thinking that I'm going high-end bonkers, but I want to use air-vanes to tune the RIAA curve in the global feedback circuit.

The question is this:

What kind of air-vanes sound good? I'm currently looking at Hammarlund air variable silver plated ceramic. Kind of pricy, so does it really matter?

And should I just do the 270p and 27p values in the feedback loop, or should I consider the 8.2p (on valve 2b)....

I've been looking at this site http://www.surplussales.com/Variable...s/AirVar2.html
any other good choices?

Perhaps I should be asking at a ham radio forum
;)

Edit : spelling

tvi 27th December 2006 05:32 PM

Rommy the cat uses these AVC150/BC14400 .

Or get real tweaky and remove the final dielectric with Vacuum variable caps , not cheap though.

Hope this helps

Regards
James

soulmerchant 27th December 2006 09:30 PM

Thanks James,

I don't know if I can trust someone called "romy the cat" :D , but the site you listed looks great.

I also received some other fine advice - the 1000p and the 270p values should be tuned - and some resistors as well.

I'm also not shure what sort of ranges I should be looking at. If necessary I will just experiment with different values until I find a good working range.

Ian

edit: my spelling is poor after speaking german for so long now...

jackinnj 27th December 2006 10:33 PM

a variable cap with 270pF max -- you can probably get a tuning capacitor from a tube radio at the salvation store for next to nothing including the radio-- these were usually 365pf (we used to call them 365mmF )

jackinnj 27th December 2006 11:23 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Just a couple of tweeks -- a lot depends upon the SPICE model you use for the ECC83's -- but it looks pretty darned good -- shown is deviation from RIAA curve :

soulmerchant 28th December 2006 06:34 AM

Thank you very much jackinnj. That is solid gold. I will definitely try out those values. What simulation software are you using?

I've been using el cheepo chinese 12ax7a's in it. No fancy paper in oil caps either - just cheap polyester - but the sound is there. Really tight bass, fast delicate highs and very musical. My friends ear834 sounds somewhat muddy in comparison. The small value caps are polystyrene - hard to source these days...

EC8010 28th December 2006 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by soulmerchant
The small value caps are polystyrene - hard to source these days...
Try LCR Components in Wales. Farnell distribute them.

jackinnj 28th December 2006 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by soulmerchant
Thank you very much jackinnj. That is solid gold. I will definitely try out those values. What simulation software are you using?

I've been using el cheepo chinese 12ax7a's in it. No fancy paper in oil caps either - just cheap polyester - but the sound is there. Really tight bass, fast delicate highs and very musical. My friends ear834 sounds somewhat muddy in comparison. The small value caps are polystyrene - hard to source these days...

you can use silver mica for the small value caps -- not too difficult to find

i just use a regular simulation program Multisim -- to make the reverse RIAA network you can use a LaPlace transform -- Walt Jung describes it in his book "Op Amp Applications Handbook" -- or you can use a transfer function block if your sim program has one.

SY 28th December 2006 01:06 PM

One caution: air vane caps tend to be very microphonic. As appealing as air-as-dielectric might be, you might do better with a Teflon trimmer.

soulmerchant 28th December 2006 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SY
One caution: air vane caps tend to be very microphonic.
Yes, but I think it is worth a try. I will try to stay away from anything long shafted - i hope that will reduce rf signal sensitivity.

I want to be able to adjust on the fly - and probably often, so a telflon trimmer may not hold up over time as well. And the air vanes are supposed to sound really good....

I'm thinking of just doing the 270pF (range up to about 400pf) and also trying different values of the 12M and 270K resistors for starters. I'll try to keep you updated...


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