Hmm, I thought that the industrial versions always followed that format. For example I have replaced ECC83 with E83CC and these were identical except for more rugged construction. Can you compare one against the other to see if they are the same? I found no reference on Franks or in the vade mecum..
Likewise, I've always assumed that the reversal of letters simply meant the industrial version, but why shouldn't this mean a completely different valve? After all, if the valve is being made differently (better cathode, more rigid grid structure, or whatever) then it genuinely is a different valve and we should not expect the pin-out to be the same. I think we've been lulled by all these badge-engineered modern production valves into thinking that an industrial version should simply be the standard valve with gold-plated pins, tinted balloon envelope and extra hype...
Thanks all,
After I spent a part of my night with old databooks and a magnifier, it appears that the E86L is, indeed, the industrial sister of the EL86. (absolutly Sure it's not an EL80 Andreas)
But I'm very distrust now, since my adventure with the E80F (that is not an EF80 !!!), This said I'm still lookiing for an E80F replacement too.
Thanks
After I spent a part of my night with old databooks and a magnifier, it appears that the E86L is, indeed, the industrial sister of the EL86. (absolutly Sure it's not an EL80 Andreas)
But I'm very distrust now, since my adventure with the E80F (that is not an EF80 !!!), This said I'm still lookiing for an E80F replacement too.
Thanks
Hi Bembel
Look at EF86, at least it shares the same pinout with E80F and specs are near enought to be substitued at no risk.
EF86 asks for lower heather current and has a higher Rp but is limited to 1W Pd while E80F is stated for 1,3W.
May be your circuit does not worry about.
Yves.
bembel said:
Look at EF86, at least it shares the same pinout with E80F and specs are near enought to be substitued at no risk.
EF86 asks for lower heather current and has a higher Rp but is limited to 1W Pd while E80F is stated for 1,3W.
May be your circuit does not worry about.
Yves.
My E83CC were Philips miniwatt, and I wish I had some now. They were electrically equivalent to the standard ECC83 differing only in the ruggedness of construction. (There was less difference between them and the standard miniwatt than there is brand to brand variation. And they were very good.)
Every single European industrial type (nos) I have ever run across adhered to the rule. AFAIK no one is currently making anything that sells under these part numbers, but I imagine someone will soon..
I am really puzzled about the EF80 E80F issue, is it that you tried to replace an E80F with EF80 or vice versa? Is it possible one of the two was a remark of something else? Did they look at all alike internally?
Every single European industrial type (nos) I have ever run across adhered to the rule. AFAIK no one is currently making anything that sells under these part numbers, but I imagine someone will soon..
I am really puzzled about the EF80 E80F issue, is it that you tried to replace an E80F with EF80 or vice versa? Is it possible one of the two was a remark of something else? Did they look at all alike internally?
Ouch! Sorry to hear that - sounds like you will need another E80F.. Apparently the CV2729 (probably hard to find) is a sub for this tube - I was looking for other equivalents, so far none.
It's very odd, the two parts are entirely different - and not just the pin out..
I will no longer assume that the rule holds fast for all types. Pays to check first..
It's very odd, the two parts are entirely different - and not just the pin out..
I will no longer assume that the rule holds fast for all types. Pays to check first..
Hi Bembel,
In English we would say "it's the exception that proves the rule" and I think that is the exact translation of the French expression you cited. Come to think of it that really doesn't make a whole lot of sense, logically speaking.. (I lived in Brussels for a number of years as a teenager, but haven't spoken any French in about 25yrs. I still read it ok for the most part though.)
Good to hear that the E80F is the only one that does not seem to follow the rule..
Billington Export (good outfit) has tons of Philips (SQ?) E80F for 19.55 pounds apiece, rather pricy imo, but at least they have them - and others may too, and hopefully for less money. In any case they do have a very long service life so you wouldn't be replacing them at all frequently.
Here's the link: http://www.bel-tubes.co.uk/vald.htm
Hope this is helpful.
In English we would say "it's the exception that proves the rule" and I think that is the exact translation of the French expression you cited. Come to think of it that really doesn't make a whole lot of sense, logically speaking..
(I lived in Brussels for a number of years as a teenager, but haven't spoken any French in about 25yrs. I still read it ok for the most part though.)Good to hear that the E80F is the only one that does not seem to follow the rule..
Billington Export (good outfit) has tons of Philips (SQ?) E80F for 19.55 pounds apiece, rather pricy imo, but at least they have them - and others may too, and hopefully for less money. In any case they do have a very long service life so you wouldn't be replacing them at all frequently.
Here's the link: http://www.bel-tubes.co.uk/vald.htm
Hope this is helpful.
Thx Kevin, but Ouch !!!
My workless status, tend to make me wait, I'm not yet sure that the problem is not circuit related. (I am fixing a very complete VTVM metrix 746A with 7 tubes) And for ow it seems I'm firstly stucked with the selenium rectifier that gives me voltage far way down (See my other post ) ---> http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=90126
Thanks again
My workless status, tend to make me wait, I'm not yet sure that the problem is not circuit related. (I am fixing a very complete VTVM metrix 746A with 7 tubes) And for ow it seems I'm firstly stucked with the selenium rectifier that gives me voltage far way down (See my other post ) ---> http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=90126
Thanks again
Yvesm said:
Thanks Yves, the circuit is as follow (regulated supply of the metrix 746A VTVM)
The E80F regulate the E86L pass tube, it's "biased" with a 85A2 on its cathode, B+ after the selenium rectifier should be 420V for a regulated 200V.
I'll post a schematic as soon I have time too scan, maybe tonight...
Hi Bembel,
Given the long service life of the E80F I would suspect that the bad selenium rectifier is the actual problem. The supply won't regulate if there is not a substantial voltage margin between the plate voltage applied to the E86L and the output voltage at the cathode.
Sorry to hear about the job situation - I've been there more than once and spent 7 months job hunting the last time. It was not a fun time.
Given the long service life of the E80F I would suspect that the bad selenium rectifier is the actual problem. The supply won't regulate if there is not a substantial voltage margin between the plate voltage applied to the E86L and the output voltage at the cathode.
Sorry to hear about the job situation - I've been there more than once and spent 7 months job hunting the last time. It was not a fun time.
kevinkr said:
Hi Kevin,
in this case the E83CC is an (better) equivalent of the ECC83, but in most cases they are different tubes (EL81 vs. E81L, EF83 vs. E83F...).
The EF80 (EF12, EF40) have the same data how the EF86; long life equivalents for the EF86 are the EF806, EF804, EF804s (another pinout).
best regards
Andreas
Thx Kevin (situation is not happy for sure) & Andrea,
Very nice infos (different styles ;-)
What's worrying most about the VTVM regulated supply, is that rect. voltage is less than the schematic (355V instead of 420V). And the reg. voltage is more (220V instead of 200v still according to the schematic).
???
Any feeling about that ?
Very nice infos (different styles ;-)
What's worrying most about the VTVM regulated supply, is that rect. voltage is less than the schematic (355V instead of 420V). And the reg. voltage is more (220V instead of 200v still according to the schematic).
???
Any feeling about that ?
Hi Bembel,
Check the component tolerances in the regulator feedback circuit. (grid of E80F) Chances are one or both are out of tolerance. Something to keep in mind is that you need an accurate dvm to set the output voltage of the regulator if it is adjustable. (pot?)
I would fix the problem with the raw supply first though.. (New bridge)
Note that the raw dc was probably specified with a nominal line voltage of 220V or 240V, and you will need to compensate for that. (Presumably with the harmonization it is now 230V) To get things just right (I'm nitpicky) if your line is 5% high then the HT should be too, the converse is also true incidentally. Does the power transformer have various line voltage selection taps? If so select the one closest to the average line voltage you have measured in your house. e voila...
OT:
I've been home all day today because our sewer line to the street was blocked last night, resulting in a small flood leaving puddles of water on the side of the basement where my lab and listening room live. No real serious damage fortunately except for 20yrs of notes and records from my old business getting ruined. The basement bathroom which we renovated two years ago is seriously trashed though, and sadly some considerable work will be required to restore it. The guy who cleared the drain did a lot more damage than the water..
Check the component tolerances in the regulator feedback circuit. (grid of E80F) Chances are one or both are out of tolerance. Something to keep in mind is that you need an accurate dvm to set the output voltage of the regulator if it is adjustable. (pot?)
I would fix the problem with the raw supply first though.. (New bridge)
Note that the raw dc was probably specified with a nominal line voltage of 220V or 240V, and you will need to compensate for that. (Presumably with the harmonization it is now 230V) To get things just right (I'm nitpicky) if your line is 5% high then the HT should be too, the converse is also true incidentally. Does the power transformer have various line voltage selection taps? If so select the one closest to the average line voltage you have measured in your house. e voila...
OT:
I've been home all day today because our sewer line to the street was blocked last night, resulting in a small flood leaving puddles of water on the side of the basement where my lab and listening room live. No real serious damage fortunately except for 20yrs of notes and records from my old business getting ruined. The basement bathroom which we renovated two years ago is seriously trashed though, and sadly some considerable work will be required to restore it. The guy who cleared the drain did a lot more damage than the water..
thx kevin,
(I'm very sad about your story)
For info, my mains are "mostly" ~230-235V. And as I am always a bit cautious, I've stayed on the mains@250V on the selector; next step is 220V (not tried it yet, thincking before of that sel. rect.)
PS: I have no other VTVM yet, I own a meterman DVM with a better InputR than a basic chinese one, but nothing to see with that metrix which is 100M InputR & measure up to 5Gohms.
(I'm very sad about your story)
For info, my mains are "mostly" ~230-235V. And as I am always a bit cautious, I've stayed on the mains@250V on the selector; next step is 220V (not tried it yet, thincking before of that sel. rect.)
PS: I have no other VTVM yet, I own a meterman DVM with a better InputR than a basic chinese one, but nothing to see with that metrix which is 100M InputR & measure up to 5Gohms.
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