AndrewT said:
A dovetail joint is only "better" if one needs extra strength in one direction. A dovetail can't be pulled apart across the pins and tails but will open up just as easily as finger joints on the side in line with the pins and tails.
If equal strength is required in both directions finger joints are just as strong (perhaps stronger since finger joints often have many more joints per inch than dovetails and more joints means more glue surface).
Nordic said:
Fast, easy and to some, better looking. Many people don't care for the visible joints of a finger joint, preferring a more "furniture" look. My first wooden amp chassis were mitered with braces.
It all depends on one's aesthetics.
Nordic said:
I have on occasion used a biscuit joiner combined with Mitered corners on several cabinet jobs for McDonalds Lodge years ago. This was a rock solid combination and not especially difficult.
Works great for a no nail no screw scenario but still needs internal blocking of some type. I use mostly glue blocks.
On cabs that are going to be covered in either tweed or tolex, I often use glue and screws, But, I counter bore the screws about 3/8th below the surface. Then plug the hole with 3/8th dowel after the joint has dried. Sand it off smooth and then radius the edge. By counter boring the screws, you then have no fear of the rollover bit hitting the head of the screw.
I finish up the joint inside with simple 2X2 split at a 45 degree angle, then cut them into 2-4" long glue blocks.
Real old school but very solid.
I used the Doweling machine @ work once to build a cab, But it was a PITA just due to the extra work setting up, inserting all the dowels, and of course the glue cleanup. But, I will admit the case clamp was great for holding squareness while drying.
Trout
I ended up cutting the bad finger joints off and gluing and screwing them together into an extra piece as described above.
There was some difficulty getting the screws in tight with the extra piece aligned perfectly. This might have been easier with nails.
Do you recommend wood sealer?
(I recall seeing a project where they sealed the entire cabinet before tolex).
Next up will be tolex!
There was some difficulty getting the screws in tight with the extra piece aligned perfectly. This might have been easier with nails.
Do you recommend wood sealer?
(I recall seeing a project where they sealed the entire cabinet before tolex).
Next up will be tolex!
PRNDL said:
No you don't need to seal the wood, the glue for the Tolex will seal it from absorbing moisture. I used to do that but no longer see the need to do so.
I have built a number of Combo and speaker cabinets over the past 9 or 10 years. If you don't have the gear or are having a problem with box or dovetails, there is nothing wrong with a good tight "Butt Joint". One that is glued and screwed is very strong, and don't forget that the baffle and back panel(s) will prevent the cabinet from RACKING or twisting.
I prefer Box joints most of the time, which I cut on a HomeMade Router Jig. They are 1/2" and are indeed strong.
If you are going to apply Tolex here is a short Tutorial on the basics of Tolex application.
Tolex Tutorial Text Pages
Below are the Photos, They are in three albums near the bottom of the page. (dbl. Click on thumbnails to enlarge)
Tolex Photos ( & other project Photos)
Good luck with your project...
PRNDL said:
It depends on several factors, temperature, humidity, ventilation and the the amount applied, as well as the type of glue you use. But NORMALY it only takes a few minutes to "tack" to where you can appply the two surfaces together. The cement is applied to both surfaces with a contact product.
Do not use a spray on glue like the 3M product. It tacks too fast and gives you problems with positioning or repositioning the tolex as you do the covering. There are several types of contact cement available now. I started out using regular DAP in the red can which is still a good product. Now I use a water-borne product that is much easier to work with and clean up. See the text page called "New Glue Review" which is included in the Text link I posted above.
Thanks Casey!
I finished the cabinet.
It was tedious, but not too difficult, especially with the great photos to follow.
The next step will be the front and back panels.
The difficult part is the speaker hole, since I don't have a template.
I might ask for help from the local amp builder (Larry Rodgers).
Although I intended to make a smaller amp with an 10" speaker, it's almost the same size as the 12" version I'm copying.
Is the sound of the larger speaker much better?
(I like to use Emminence Redcoats).
I finished the cabinet.
It was tedious, but not too difficult, especially with the great photos to follow.
The next step will be the front and back panels.
The difficult part is the speaker hole, since I don't have a template.
I might ask for help from the local amp builder (Larry Rodgers).
Although I intended to make a smaller amp with an 10" speaker, it's almost the same size as the 12" version I'm copying.
Is the sound of the larger speaker much better?
(I like to use Emminence Redcoats).
I use a Router and homemade circle jig for the speaker holes. But before I had that rig I cut a lot of holes in baffles with a simple Jig (saber) saw and a nice plywood blade. Just use a compass (or pencil on a string) to draw the hole then cut it out slowly and carefully. Remember the hole is 1" smaller then that of the speaker size, like a 12" speaker is an 11" hole, a 10' speaker is a 9" hole.etc.
But if Larry Rodgers will cut the hole for you that might be the way to go for now. I like to do everything myself as far as I can.
The sound of the 12" over the 10" has a lot to do with the amount of air that is being moved if all else is the same or close. In some amps I actually like a smaller (10") speaker. When I built a 5E3 Fender Deluxe Variatin, for example, I used a 10" Eminence Alnico Speaker. I have used a lot of Eminence speakers, almost all of them were Alnico Magnets.
But if Larry Rodgers will cut the hole for you that might be the way to go for now. I like to do everything myself as far as I can.
The sound of the 12" over the 10" has a lot to do with the amount of air that is being moved if all else is the same or close. In some amps I actually like a smaller (10") speaker. When I built a 5E3 Fender Deluxe Variatin, for example, I used a 10" Eminence Alnico Speaker. I have used a lot of Eminence speakers, almost all of them were Alnico Magnets.
After reading through all the posts since my last one and looking beyond the repeats and that we don't all use the same word to describe something, I must say it apparent that everyone who has posted, has also done of which they speak.
With all the theories and conjecture being bandied around these days, it's nice to see the meat and potatoes guys are still on track. Good on ya!
Hail to the woodworkers. The true craftspeople of DIY.
With all the theories and conjecture being bandied around these days, it's nice to see the meat and potatoes guys are still on track. Good on ya!
Hail to the woodworkers. The true craftspeople of DIY.
Cal Weldon said in part...
"Hail to the woodworkers. The true craftspeople of DIY"
I took up wood working after I retired about 10 years ago, and it is a never ending learning process for me.
Wood work is a completely different discipline from Tube Electronics or sheet metal crafting that I like to dabble in.
"Hail to the woodworkers. The true craftspeople of DIY"
I took up wood working after I retired about 10 years ago, and it is a never ending learning process for me.
Wood work is a completely different discipline from Tube Electronics or sheet metal crafting that I like to dabble in.
My Dad was the head tech for several companies back in the 60's, one of which was Magnavox. Interestingly, besides electronics his passion was flying.
That being said, I spent several years in the 60's in our 3 car garage holding up the end of his This N that (can use real terminology here)
While he built a full size Pete Bowers Flybaby. (all wood single seat open cockpit)
I got my first start in woodworking back then. In my teens I started in a Display Shop/Hardboard Fabricator, Did that 15 years, And spent 20 more in custom cabinetry and millwork.
I spend way more time on electronics projects these day rather than woodworking.
Oh, back to the topic of tolex.
I know a lot of guys have their favorite adhesives, But, I have really gotten fond of Formica Brand #160 water based contact.
No Fumes, Put it on with a foam roller, wait about 30 minutes and lay it up.
I really like it on Tweed fabric also. Its fairly thin so its must be applied heavily, But, I can honestly say, You can use it indoors without seeing Elvis by the time your done. 99% odorless and soap and water Clean Up.
Did this one last week.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Trout
Trout said:
My Dad was the head tech for several companies back in the 60's, one of which was Magnavox. Interestingly, besides electronics his passion was flying.
That being said, I spent several years in the 60's in our 3 car garage holding up the end of his This N that (can use real terminology here)
While he built a full size Pete Bowers Flybaby. (all wood single seat open cockpit)
I got my first start in woodworking back then. In my teens I started in a Display Shop/Hardboard Fabricator, Did that 15 years, And spent 20 more in custom cabinetry and millwork.
I spend way more time on electronics projects these day rather than woodworking.
Oh, back to the topic of tolex.
I know a lot of guys have their favorite adhesives, But, I have really gotten fond of Formica Brand #160 water based contact.
No Fumes, Put it on with a foam roller, wait about 30 minutes and lay it up.
I really like it on Tweed fabric also. Its fairly thin so its must be applied heavily, But, I can honestly say, You can use it indoors without seeing Elvis by the time your done. 99% odorless and soap and water Clean Up.
Did this one last week.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Trout
Most of my life long expierimenting and work discipline was in electronics and communications. Wood work came later in life.
I agree on using some of the newer glues instead of the smelly contact cements. I used two fans in push-pull to ventilate my work area.
I use a product from a company called "Custom Pak Adhesives". It's original purpose was/is to cement formica to counter tops and other construction jobs.
It sounds about the same, the big improvement is no fumes and soap and water clean up. Additionaly if you mis-align a piece it is very easy to remove and reposition. This stuff works great with Tweed too.
Your Tweed cabinet looks really nice, you did a really good job. What kind of amp is it?
haha,, a 5E3 of course!!
It would not surprise me one bit if the Custom pack stuff and Formica stuff were one in the same.
White? Milky? Somewhat Thin? Drys clear to whiteish in thicker spots?
Weldwood also sells the stuff, But our local Lowes was always out. I buy the Formica Brand in gallon cans, Its much cheaper that way.
Our Lowes generally has the Formica Brand #160 in stock in Qts and Gals, I live close enough that shipping in Custom Pak was not sensible. (Could not locate it locally)
Trout
Edit,
BTW, That water based stuff has another nice feature, If you get a stubborn area that wants to lift, Simply get out Momma's old iron and a thick towel. It will improve adherence. Almost like doing veneer repair with white glue, Just less heat required.
Even the heat from your hands will activate it.
I have found if needed the heat on tweed works very easy, The Tweed is not very temp sensitive, But on tolex, Do not over-do it, Tolex will melt if overheated.
"It would not surprise me one bit if the Custom pack stuff and Formica stuff were one in the same."
The guy at Custom Pak told me that they repackage their product for other companies. So it wouldn't surprise me either if it was the same product. I will probably check out Lowes next time I need some. Otherwise I get mine directly from Custom Pak in a 1 gallon Jug (like Milk) and have to pay the postage.
The 5E3 was my very first tube amp build almost 10 years ago, and my first dealing with Tweed covering. Lining up the pattern was a real challange.
I added a TMB tone stack to my 5E3 to give it more versatility and it works really well.
The guy at Custom Pak told me that they repackage their product for other companies. So it wouldn't surprise me either if it was the same product. I will probably check out Lowes next time I need some. Otherwise I get mine directly from Custom Pak in a 1 gallon Jug (like Milk) and have to pay the postage.
The 5E3 was my very first tube amp build almost 10 years ago, and my first dealing with Tweed covering. Lining up the pattern was a real challange.
I added a TMB tone stack to my 5E3 to give it more versatility and it works really well.
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