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Old 14th November 2006, 11:08 PM   #1
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Default Make: Bell P/A - Model: Carillon '35'

It's a tubed PA amp...

Since I'm thinking this won't be good for any mic pre stuff (guessing), I'm going the guitar amp route, (maybe)..

Haven't had very much time to fool with it, yet...

Here are some relevant links on the exact model or EXTREMELY similiar (little to no info for these, on the web)...

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.g...fd6a9f411deece

QUOTE:
"My dinosaur egg is a Bell Carillon Model 35-A 35 watt amplifier with:
2 RCA 6L6GC's
3 12AX7's (two DOA)
1 12AV6
3 HI-Z microphone inputs
1 aux phono input
4 - 8 - 16 ohm speaker connections

The front panel has 7 knobs:
Mic 1, 2 and 3
Program
Master
Bass
Treble
(I would want to add a midrange.)
The amp was mfg. by Bell P/A Products at 1209 N. Fifth St. Columbus, OH
43201 "
END QUOTE

http://www.radioattic.com/attic.php?sellerId=38#38029
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"Bell Carillon Amp
Six tube 35 watt monoblock P/A amp with two 6L6GCs, three 12AX7s and 12AV6. Rebuilt with new capacitors and fresh tubes. Very powerful with excellent treble and bass response. Nice clean case and chassis. $195.00. (0038029)"


Here's what I'll be following:
http://www.rru.com/~meo/Guitar/Amps/...a2g-notes.html
http://www.rru.com/~meo/Guitar/Amps/...tar/index.html

Here's a link to the sister thread @ homerecording.com's forum:
http://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=201096

Pics!!!

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Can anyone comment on the whether it would be realistic to make this into a guitar head?

Thanks

P.S. I'm not getting any sound out of it at the moment... Still trying though..
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Old 14th November 2006, 11:22 PM   #2
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Have you tested the inside at all? With an old amp like this, everyone agrees that you should replace most capacitors. Also, you might want to cut out all that high-gain circuitry if you're trying for hifi (with small guitar signals, you probably want to keep it). I'd also disconnect all the transformers and test the windings for open circuits. Finally, I'd use the lightbulb trick before plugging it in and turning it on, but it seems like you already plugged it in.

Personally, I'd suggest a rebuild with one of Edcor's very fine CXPP-60-8-6.6K OPT's, not very expensive at under $60 each...

http://www.edcorusa.com/classx/tube_...p60-8-6_6K.htm

Rebuilding it makes more sense to me, because you'd probably want to replace most of those old gross components anyway. Except for bumble bee caps, post them on eBay, people actually want these things
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Old 15th November 2006, 12:04 AM   #3
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Location: Macedon NY
PA amps make pretty good guitar amps - tone controls are one obvious difference. But you might want to change to one of the Fender or Marshall style phase splitters, depending on the circuit.

Schematic (only) is in Sams Photofact 1047-SED - too recent for me - I have mostly pre-1960.
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Old 15th November 2006, 02:26 AM   #4
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By the way.. The tubes are divided between RCA Electrons and Telefunken... Cool
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Old 15th November 2006, 02:26 AM   #5
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Thanks for the reply....

First off, and I'm sure everyone's used to hearing this around here by now, I'm quite the newb....

However, this project has sat idle for many months and I'm in great need of a tube guitar amp nowadays (for studio work) and don't have the money to go buy off the shelf..

As far as testing, I haven't braved it, since I've been lacking guidance... I've done some very simple solid state repair stuff, but no tube work yet... It was plugged in way back when I bought it (June 06'ish), but I wasn't getting any signal out of it. I didn't leave it on for more than 5 minutes and I can't remember if the tubes got warm/glowed.

It came with the matching "Bell & Howell" 15 inch open back speaker cabs (and they look soooo old).. . I bought the whole package from a churh "tailgate" sale for 10 dollars or so.. The guy I bought it from didn't know anything about it.

I'm gonna go ahead and say I'd rather rebuild than recondition...

Here are my objectives:

A guitar amp head that is capable of 4, 8, and 16 ohm output, with a tone somewhere between an Vox AC30 and Orange and old Marshall brand stuff... Vox for clean tone / Orange/Marshall overdrive..

Tone over loudness!! As I'll be using it for studio work, tone is much more desirable than mic-overloading gain...

I'd like have the capability of using 1x12 through 4x12.. Not sure how much that matters at this point...

I would like to re-chassis it... It looks cool now, but it's not at all of durable, in my opinion.... I'm hoping to go for a head that is similiar, in looks, to this:

http://media.zzounds.com/media/brand...4e76e05a26.jpg

The way I see it is that I want it to compare, in construction/materials quality, to guitar heads costing $1000-1500...



Now... If I'm gonna just rebuild, should I still go in and test for anything imparticular? I'll have to lookup that lightbulb bit you mentioned...

My main question would be:
What can I salvage from this amp? Will I be saving any money or getting anything that supercedes the value of the amp on it's own? Should I feel guilty hacking this thing up?

Cool...I'll stop rambling now...

Thanks again!

-Joshua
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Old 15th November 2006, 02:52 AM   #6
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i'd salvage the power transformer, the tubes, and possibly the sockets depending on how clean and tight they are, and whether you want to desolder every pin etc. . as for the rest, i wouldn't trouble myself with it. i'd buy the Edcor, and start looking around for guitar head schematics using push-pull 6L6's (there should be many).
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Old 15th November 2006, 04:21 AM   #7
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Cool...

Is there anything imparticular that I need to know about the power transformer? If my assumptions are correct, the power transformer is obviously the larger of the two....


And now a technical question...

If I want it to have 4,6,16 ohm outputs, is that determined by the output transformer's windings? Is there any relation to power transformer? Am I totally off track with this thought?



Thanks
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Old 15th November 2006, 04:21 AM   #8
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Can anyone help me determine which of the following might be closest to filling the need I described?


Pro 5E5
Super 5D4 or 5E4
Bandmaster 5E7
Bassman 5F6

See this thread for the source of info:

Simple 6L6 PP Guitar Design Needed


Here are most of the schematics mentioned:

http://www.charlestonarea.com/Fender...tics/index.htm
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Old 15th November 2006, 11:52 AM   #9
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Haha... Check out this Google Groups post...

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.g...6gc+guitar+amp

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Old 15th November 2006, 12:24 PM   #10
PRNDL is offline PRNDL  United States
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Join Date: Oct 2006
You're on the right track.

Here's a site that has build info on the Fender amps you are thinking about.
http://www.kilback.net/homebrewtweaks/amps/amps.htm

It might be wise to figure out what the power transformer wiring is like before removing it, since there's a lot of wires.

The chassis looks fine and has plenty of room to put in a circuit board. Use a Brillo pad to clean it; then coat it with clear. Leave the transformer heater wiring to the tubes in place, since they don't change.

Another choice would be whether to replace the old capacitor cans or use electrolytics on the circuit board.

I'm currently rewiring an old organ amp into something similar to a Matchless Spitfire.
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