On the front page of PE:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=306-100
And, there is a 9W SE version with a similar compliment. when you click the "Nuera" Logo on the product page, it takes you to the Tang Band listing for PE.
Anyone know anything about these? Curiousity, if nothing else.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=306-100
And, there is a 9W SE version with a similar compliment. when you click the "Nuera" Logo on the product page, it takes you to the Tang Band listing for PE.
Anyone know anything about these? Curiousity, if nothing else.
Cheap Chinese
Of course this thing is Chinese!!! You or I crafting something similar would fork out more in parts...
Leave it to the Chinese to destroy the competition in the Hi-end audio market..........when the prospective consumer no longer smirks at the "Made in China" label, you can expect another consumer market to fall to the Chinese.
___________________________________Rick...........
Of course this thing is Chinese!!! You or I crafting something similar would fork out more in parts...
Leave it to the Chinese to destroy the competition in the Hi-end audio market..........when the prospective consumer no longer smirks at the "Made in China" label, you can expect another consumer market to fall to the Chinese.
___________________________________Rick...........
well, it seems a fine line between hifi enthusiasts willing to shell out big money, and hifi geeks willing to build their own stuff. maybe this will open a new market, of people in between, or less hardcore than either? it'd be sad if tubes became popular, because i wouldn't be unique, but hey - hifi audio is worth it, even if everybody jumps on the bandwagon. hopefully people will realize that lossy compressed audio isn't worth their time. 
Perhaps it would be a good thing if the consumer "discovered " tubes.. but I think the public at large is a spoiled, contaminated bunch..they seem entranced by flashy lights & lotsa useless buttons ...kinda like sparkly things attract babies..is the buying public that bad??..Yes I think so.
The "Power rating" lies have so permiated the culture that a step into "reality" and technical accuracy is so much out of reach for most by now, that any return to an "enthusiast" culture by the masses is now not possible.
We need not worry that "outsiders" will encroach onto our world.
_____________________________________Rick.............
The "Power rating" lies have so permiated the culture that a step into "reality" and technical accuracy is so much out of reach for most by now, that any return to an "enthusiast" culture by the masses is now not possible.
We need not worry that "outsiders" will encroach onto our world.
_____________________________________Rick.............
I don't think we have to worry about our hobby being rendered very common place. $900 Nuera tube amplifiers whether made in Taiwan or Mainland China are still very expensive to a public used to $250 all in one entertainment centers..
I'd go a couple of steps further (I'm very cynical) and say that most of the public doesn't care two hoots about sound quality, and never did. Add the endless stream of gadgets vying for people's time and money and you can see that the inroads made by tube boosters are impressive enough.
I used to post to Hydrogen Audio Forums where iPod is the very definition of hifi.. Many 20 somethings cannot conceive of analog sound let alone tubes and lps. A very few do seem attracted, I guess there are a few in every crowd... Fortunately...
Look at the classic hifi that people collect today - I remember it in it's heyday and only a very small percentage of very well heeled people owned the stuff..
Heck a Scott 299 in 1961 cost as much as many people made in a month in those days.
My Dad's first hifi system came from one of the few downtown Boston Radio Shack stores in 1961 - and cost $120. It consisted of a Garrard changer with Shure magnetic cartridge, a Realistic Stereodyne/40 amplifier and a pair of Solo II speakers. (A modest, but good sounding system) Relatively speaking the sum of money he spent would probably represent more than $1000 of equivalent purchasing power in current terms.
I doubt our hobby will ever be popular, most people I encounter think I'm a curious anachronism, and for every person I meet who gets it there are at least 20 who don't.
We play with an "obsolete" technology, and if we are lucky sufficient people will remain interested in it that parts, tubes, and other necessities to DIY life will remain relatively available.. And hopefully no one will legislate our inefficient amplifiers into oblivion due to their somewhat higher power consumption.
I'd go a couple of steps further (I'm very cynical) and say that most of the public doesn't care two hoots about sound quality, and never did. Add the endless stream of gadgets vying for people's time and money and you can see that the inroads made by tube boosters are impressive enough.
I used to post to Hydrogen Audio Forums where iPod is the very definition of hifi.. Many 20 somethings cannot conceive of analog sound let alone tubes and lps. A very few do seem attracted, I guess there are a few in every crowd... Fortunately...
Look at the classic hifi that people collect today - I remember it in it's heyday and only a very small percentage of very well heeled people owned the stuff..
Heck a Scott 299 in 1961 cost as much as many people made in a month in those days.
My Dad's first hifi system came from one of the few downtown Boston Radio Shack stores in 1961 - and cost $120. It consisted of a Garrard changer with Shure magnetic cartridge, a Realistic Stereodyne/40 amplifier and a pair of Solo II speakers. (A modest, but good sounding system) Relatively speaking the sum of money he spent would probably represent more than $1000 of equivalent purchasing power in current terms.
I doubt our hobby will ever be popular, most people I encounter think I'm a curious anachronism, and for every person I meet who gets it there are at least 20 who don't.
We play with an "obsolete" technology, and if we are lucky sufficient people will remain interested in it that parts, tubes, and other necessities to DIY life will remain relatively available.. And hopefully no one will legislate our inefficient amplifiers into oblivion due to their somewhat higher power consumption.
Just imagine the only place you could get clean water was at your own home... I'd rather have a world where everyone had clean water so I could drink it whereever I go, and not have to wait till I get back home...
Hi-fi is like caviar... noone gives a hoot about fisheggs until they taste good caviar...
Hi-fi is like caviar... noone gives a hoot about fisheggs until they taste good caviar...
Hi Nordic, I understand your analogy, and I think it is a clever one, unfortunately the old adage: "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.." is much closer to my experience..
And you'd be surprised how many people hate caviar.. (not me)
Of course I may be remarking on cultural differences as much as anything, seems like no one under a certain age here can focus long enough to understand or value the difference. It is no coincidence that most of the people I know who are interested in audio are well over 35..
I have introduced countless non audiophile types to high end tube audio and generally they appreciate my efforts, but are they interested in it.. NO...
And you'd be surprised how many people hate caviar.. (not me)
Of course I may be remarking on cultural differences as much as anything, seems like no one under a certain age here can focus long enough to understand or value the difference. It is no coincidence that most of the people I know who are interested in audio are well over 35..
I have introduced countless non audiophile types to high end tube audio and generally they appreciate my efforts, but are they interested in it.. NO...
Well said, Kevin. One of the problems is the trivialization of music. It's everywhere. TV commercials, elevators, stores, restaurants, movie backgrounds. We're so used to music being only a background accompaniment to some other more "worthy" activity that sitting down just to listen to music seems almost anachronistic. The attention span of our society has shortened in my lifetime. People want excitement, action, noise, instant gratification, instant resolution. (Think about how this affects the politics of war such as in Iraq – but let’s not go there) If a TV show doesn't resolve a full story right away, we get bored; change the channel! Who has the patience to sit down and soak in a full symphony these days? There's things to do, places to go, run, run. No wonder kids need Ritalin.
I think that a good percentage of younger listeners care about sound "quality" they just have a very different definition of the concept. "Music" tends to carry a different meaning also.
I work in a building that houses at least 1000 engineers (electrical hardware, software and mechanical). Yes, this is not a normal cross section of the population, but one with higher than average intelligence, and spending power. The median age is probably in the high 20's. Most laugh at the 4 of us "tube heads" but I talk about sound with quite a few of them. I have listened to a lot of their systems, and auditioned mine to quite a few people. The concept of sound quality seems to correlate with the abillity to shake walls, car trunks, and people with 1.21 giggawatts of power and monster subwoofers.
If you understand that a large amount of a 20 somethings energy is spent on impressing members of the opposite sex (it was the same when we were young), and their popular music is heavilly bass oriented (dance music, rap, modern rock), the choice of equipment make some sense. This is not much different than the "Disco Explosion" in the mid '70s, and the choice of equipment is similar. Tube equipment does not do this music very well, and didn't do disco well either. I built a few systems back in the '70s, and they were all SS, mostly Carver or Phase Linear equipment.
A large number of todays young people have not learned to be a critical listener, and many never will. As people mature and find the time to actually listen to the music, some will acquire the ability to pick out details that please them. These details are different for each listener, and highly dependant on the type of music.
In the 70's and 80's, I had a friend who sold big systems (1.5 kilowatt Carvers, monster speakers, etc.) for home use. I eventually bought one from him (only 400 watts). I still preferred the sound of the old 20 WPC Voxson SS system that I had from my days of working in a stereo shop. We each spent countless hours listening to each others systems, often with the same music (LP's). We could never agree on what sounded good, or even what particular details to listen for. I still have both systems, though neither has been used in at least 10 years.
I believe that only 10% (at best) of the listening public ever develop critical listening skills, and those who do are scattered all over the map with their preferences. A small portion of this 10% can actually afford to acquire their dream system, and this is split between tube, SS, and digital, because these technologies are all available to those who can afford to choose. The rest of the 10 % (us) will compromise (sometimes leading to DIY), and the other 90% go to a big box store. It has always been this way.
The choice of amplifier technology has never been as wide is it is now. Unfortunately the choice of music delivery is also dictated by the spending habits of the masses. Hence the dissapearance of vinyl. If the trend continues, the CD and the music DVD will be replaced by some new compressed digital delivery system. Lets just hope that the DRM confusion delays the enevitable until technology catches up enough to give us a system capable of bettering CDs. If the CD had been delayed until 24 bit 96KHz techlology was available, it would be a much better system.
As for the Nuera amplifiers, the full page ad on the back of the lastest issue of Audio Xpress gives no clue to the source of these amplifiers. If they convert a few more people over to the sound of tubes, then they will help to preserve our hobby. I doubt that vacuum tube amplifiers will ever be mainstream, but I for one would love to walk into Best Buy or Circuit City some day and see a tube system.
http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/306-100m.pdf
If you scroll to the bottom of page 10 , they have an email to contact them.
Would be nice if they showed the guts of the amp.
......................Blake
If you scroll to the bottom of page 10 , they have an email to contact them.
Would be nice if they showed the guts of the amp.
......................Blake
tubelab.com said:
I dunnow 'bout that. The 807 project I did certainly does right by bass-heavy techno and "modern rock", of which I listen to quite a lot. That 30WPC design sent the 100WPC SS (MOSFET-based design) rig I had used up till then into permanent retirement. Want good bass from a VT implementation, pay attention to what the open loop response is doing. If you use RC couplings that cutoff at 200Hz or more, gNFB may flatten the closed loop frequency response, but at the low end, there will be less NFB, less effective NFB, and that won't improve the Zo at all. The end result will be poor bass.
By taking care of that, and adjusting both the local and global NFB, I get bass with plenty of wall-shaking, window-rattling "authority" but without any hint of "sloppiness". I measured the -3.0db(v) points as: f(l)= 7.0Hz; f(h)= 37.5KHz -- no complaints there.
Nothing new or unexpected there. There have always been some spectacularly mediocre rigs being mass produced for a mass market. If it doesn't obviously distort, then who's to know any better? The more some things change, the more they stay the same.
Thump-a-thump
So much of what people consider to be high quality audio consists of "feeling the bass" which is the antithesis of most tube fidelity.
Surely, tubes will remain a niche market, a niche I more than happy to occupy with a few other audio souls who share my enthusiasm.
BTW I'm listening to JS Bach's Brandenburg concerto #6 while sipping a lovely armagnac.
Cheers!
So much of what people consider to be high quality audio consists of "feeling the bass" which is the antithesis of most tube fidelity.
Surely, tubes will remain a niche market, a niche I more than happy to occupy with a few other audio souls who share my enthusiasm.
BTW I'm listening to JS Bach's Brandenburg concerto #6 while sipping a lovely armagnac.
Cheers!
VERY well said, Brian!
As for tube amplifiers I still doubt that it will be something for the masses. Buying a tube amp seems to be just another toy for some people...something that looks different, that glows and has that "myth" (being ironical here) of better sound to it.
And of course something that sounds different than what people are used to....at least for a while until that gets boring also...or they are loosing interest in tube amps because the high end amp from China just doesn't want to stop humming, not sounding right etc etc.
Just count the number of threads about problems with chinese made amps in forums worldwide. Everybody seems to dream of tube highend at a bargain price...another very obvious symptom of our society...
Here in Germany a huge electronic chain (Saturn) runs tv ads with the slogan "Geiz is geil" (roughly translated into "stinginess is way cool" or something like that...
it sometimes makes me ill to the stomach (being polite here
)
I know that it is possible to shake the neighbors walls with a tube amp. I have an SE amp of all things that delivers wall shaking bass without GNFB. I also play a lot of modern rock and techno (no disco PLEASE).
I have sold more amps by loaning someone a tube amp than any other method. Most 20 somethings say it does not compare to their gigawatt home theater amp. Of course their speakers were designed for that SS amp and usually came from one of the "Big Box" retailers, often in the same big box as the HT amplifier.
I went over to a friends house to demo a tube amp. I wired the amp into his speakers and DVD player. The first thing that he discovered is that it didn't shake the walls as good as his HT amp when playing a movie with explosions, car crashes, etc, even with the powered subwoofer attached. It is hard to squeeze 10Hz through a reasonable size OPT. I did notice that gunshots sounded very real on this setup. So real that the cats in the house ran and hid. He was not impressed with the sound enough to want a tube amp. Music reproduction was not even considered because he doesn't listen to music at home! He walks around all day long with white wires coming out of his head!
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