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The sound of chassis?

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diyAudio Senior Member
Joined 2002
NOSTALGIA

Hi Steve,

All of that beauty is slowly but surely disapearing sadly.

Incidentally it was a Westmalle I was having...I don't hold my hopes up too high for the mussels next year either with all the oil spillages we've been having on the Nortsea.

Still I count myself lucky to live in one of the most beautiful parts of the country.

You have to look @ SY's webplace.

You didn't think for a minute I hadn't, did you?;)

Cheers,:cool:
 
Party Cones ?.....

"I am afraid it would make the whole thing tilt sideways when loaded"
Taking a look at the picture should clarify things.
Placing or glueing a cone to one end of the springs would give single contact points and not compromise lateral stability imo - the cone needs to have a suitable base diameter, or machined with a step so as to locate the cone centrally on/under the spring end.
Valve spring retainers discs are ripe for placing a marble or steel ball, or custom machined cone, in the central hole, and with or without the spring.
This Spring Specifications Chart should give you more information.

"What I had in mind is a metal triangular frame with three predrilled holes in it and then fix the springs underneath with bolts to support heavy cabs.
The top should then fit flush underneath the cabinet."


I am toying with ideas regarding fixing four springs to a heavy board that has four hard feet underneath, and the bottom cabinet mounted directly on the tops of the springs, with or without retainer discs, and maybe with balls on top of the retainers.
The combined weight of my mates bass rig is pushing 300 lbs - each cab is about 120 lbs, and the amplifier about 60 lbs, and the other day when using four springs, the compression of the springs was about 1 cm, and the whole lot rocked gently but safely when prodded.
I do not want the cabinets to sit directly on a board at this stage, because the altered cabinet panel vibrational modes and the additional mass would reduce or modify at least, the pretty much total isolation that I am getting - perhaps the cabinet mounted on the board (cones underneath) is better and is another experiment in this series for the near future.

"In that way the springs won't get lost in transport and a product could be put out to the market after further development."
The cogs upstairs were already turning over with ideas for more elaborate (more woodwork mostly) versions that could be safer and more practical and able to survive the average muso or crew, but I am/we are still at the first live show experiment stage. ;)
Other versions currently in thought form are ones for isolation of tube amplifier heads from the cabinet that they are usually placed upon.
The venue the other day was a daggy cement block constructed pub out in the middle of nowhere with fantastic virgin bush views inland and to the coast, an outside beer garden with permanent stage, and large public bar area with 10" high stage at one end, and about 50 patrons total, inside and outside.
The PA was an old EM series Yamaha self powered desk, 2 x 18"subs and 2 x15" full range cabs for FOH, and 3 12" FR cabs as monitors, and the FOH PA used only for vocals - about as unplugged as you're gunna get for a blues 3 piece.
The guitarist ran a Marshall quad box and big Marshall amplifier, that unfortunately needed turning down, mainly because the sound of his rig does not quite sit right with the bass or drums.
After John (the bassist) and I fitted the springs, he found that he needed to alter his eq and needed to turn up a bit, and that the feet feel through the stage was quite different
After two songs I signalled him to turn up a bit more.
His initial comment was that the bass seemed a bit diminished, but after that one bracket he reported that he found his rig to have better attack/slap, dynamics and articulation, and more power, drive and more musical - after 45 minutes he liked it a lot and wants to explore it further too - he also wants me to fix up "that damm lead guitar sound" when we have given his complete bass rig the once over - cables, speaker Z correction networks etc - electronics later.
With the bass turned up a bit but not all that much, the drummer turned up too, and the two cohered sonically really well - better than I've heard previously.
Sitting in a pretty much empty lounge bar room with large area of doors to the outside, the drum/bass combination was really seriously strong and clean, really clean, and strongly excited the soles of my shoes on the thinly carpeted cement floor - the table that we were sitting at was vibrating strongly but nicely too.
My GF also commented that that the sound was seriously loud, but did not sound hurtingly 'LOUD', and that she liked it too.
She is now even becoming picky with sounds - before she met me 5 years ago she lived with a cheap rotten system - now that she is living with much better audio and visual, she is becoming rather more discerning and good thing too.
There is of course more experimentation to be done, but so far older ears like the resultant sound and young ones too - during the last 45 minute bracket about 8 kids from 6yo and down, boys and girls had a great time dancing in front of the stage.

"I don't dwell in those circles anymore but since you do? "
The word gets around that I can reliably fix their gear, so they come to me - last sunday the show was about 6km from my GF's place so that seemed like a good thing to do. :)

Eric, The Recalibrated Live Unplugged Ears.
 
Oooops....

The pictures I promised...
 

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Manna From Heaven...

I got more springs yesterday (for free), so now I have enough to place 3 under each speaker, amplifier and cdp at home (in addition to the ones that I am using at work).
Under the cdp makes an immediate nice improvement - more relaxed sounding and more detailed and more musical overall.
I just thought somebody might like to know........

Eric.
 
I just acquired Newport air suspention platform http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/show...e=15&highlight=vibration control&pagenumber=3

I tell you that this is the best improvement I made to my stereo so far. I'm using it just under the CD transport, but the amount of information I'm getting now is incredible. It's like the sonic signature of anything that supported the player before is totaly gone. There is so much more depth to the sound, the detail in high frequencies is amazing and the music is not bounded by anything. Also the bass is improved with more definition and pace. The air take on supply is actually very low because it is rather stored in modules and they don't pass it like the turntables. I can play full volume, yet when I touch the platform or CD player I can't feel any vibrations. All the other, not supported components resonate like crazy.;)
 

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Aquirophile ?....

'Aquired' sounds like less than normal price.
What is the going price for these ?.
"I can play full volume, yet when I touch the platform or CD player I can't feel any vibrations. All the other, not supported components resonate like crazy."
I'm getting same results with the springs, and yes vibration isolation does make a very nice difference ime so far.

Eric.
 
I don't understand how the air platform makes any difference with a CD player. I have quite an extensive knowledge of vibration dampening in spectroscopy and yes, in the analog domain it's the only way to do it but in digital domain? Something's weird.
Naturally there are subsonic vibrations the environment say 4, 6, 8 Hz. These create all kinds of problems in hi resolution spectroscopy because they broaden absorption lines create artifacts especially if many lines are present in a narrow bandwidth which is surely the case in music material. When music plays there are all kinds of other frequencies coming from the speakers that add to the problem.
Saying that vibration control improves the CD player would indicate that, in the absence of vibration, you are somehow doing a better job in extracting bits from the CD and that makes absolutely no sense at all to me unless the vibration really effect the electronics of the analog section. Since there are transformers mounted on the chassis there are already all kinds of overtones coming from within the CD chassis itself.
If that is correct the thing to put on the dampers would be the dac alone with power supplies and no transformers.
There are some experiments that could be done here to figure this out.

Unfortunately, I could never install air lifts on my stereo, it would look too much like at work. :(
 
frugal-phile™
Joined 2001
Paid Member
grataku said:
you are somehow doing a better job in extracting bits from the CD and that makes absolutely no sense at all to me unless the vibration really effect the electronics of the analog section

Why wouldn't they. And even in the digital bits, some of the tasks are essentially analog. I attach part of an interview with Julian Vereker (one of my heros):

dave
 

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Dave,
what you are saying is that the if you send me your MS WORD CD that loaded fine on your computer it's not going to load correctly on my laptop if I lightly tap on my computer desk while it's installing?

Data integrity and being able to read correctly down to the last bit is sort of the bare bones requirement for anything to work in the digital domain. I am pretty sure that any 50 c CDROM made by the indigenous people of whatever is able to do that. The question is for how long.
 
Peter
I am surprised you didn't buy 3 cdm 225 for $600 and made your own lift. I got the feeling we are going to see pictures of your whole system or air jacks within a couple of weeks. Do you have tank? Is it refillable or disposable? To what kind of pressures does it get filled?
 
Data integrity and being able to read correctly down to the last bit is sort of the bare bones requirement for anything to work in the digital domain.

There are no such requirements for red book cd. Not enough error correction code to make up for all reading errors. And much more importantly there is jitter.
This topic has been discussed hundreds of times. Why don't you do some reading?


peter
 
frugal-phile™
Joined 2001
Paid Member
grataku said:
what you are saying is that the if you send me your MS WORD CD

Don't have a Word CD. It is one of the worst pieces of software i've ever tried.

Besides the part about the bits being an RF signal before it hits the circuitry, the bit about vibration stressing/spiking the power supply is enuff to explain the potential benefit.

dave
 
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