Bio Sonics......
Now, steel is magnetic material. Having read that anything magnetic in audio is no good, how come the magnetic enclosure sounds good?
Pete, the steel enclosure is used as a container and not as an audio conductor.
Here we are talking of field effects affecting/effecting sonics, and not the sound of a magnetic conductor component lead etc.
For that matter, I think most magnetic component leads are containing nickel in the wire alloy.
Imo/ime nickel sounds BAD/TOXIC.
Remember those big heavy fat and comfortable sounding Pioneer recievers with wooden lid/sides - they are not so fat and comfortable without the wood.
But RFI/EMI is not always a problem. Is steel really good sounding? From my experience the sonic signature of materials is similar to the sound the given materials produce. Steel seems to be ringing.
Ah good, you are listening.
Yes, iron/steel rings but is not neccesarily a bad sounding ringing, as opposed to aluminium that will take your ears out if you strike a piece.
Titanium has another sound, that is not annoying when struck, and in/on/around a circuit this flavour can be heard.
Big hint - think biologically - imo materials that are required by the body sound nice or at least acceptable, and those that are toxic or interfering with the metabolism sound bad in physical form, and in sonic flavour in/on/around a circuit, and feel bad too in physical form.
Ever stayed in an aluminium caravan or an asbestos panelled house - I have and I could not wait to get out of the room, and I am yet to meet happily energetic people living in such dwellings.
Ever gone into a copper sheet panelled Faraday Cage room - as well as absence of noise, there is a calming feeling in such a room, that is different to that in an anechoic chamber.
I have also tried pieces of low temp superconducting material in/on circuits and it sounds real BAD - full of toxic nasties.
It does take a bat's ears to discern the differences between materials.
Nah, but you do have to understand what you are hearing.
Practice gives ability to discern small variations in spectral/tonal characteristics, and with A/B testing you can learn to diffrentiate the additional sound caused by introducing another material into the whole equation.
An open mind, and a dowsing sense is required also.
Then use the Mr.Feedback carsprings for vibration insulation and you add your own legwork and sonic heaven is in sight.
Yeah, have any of you blockheads tried this yet ?.
Peter, you seem pretty big on mounting feet importance/sonics - tried it out yet ?.
Is it training, the capacity for remembering sounds, the gear or all of that?
Does this kind of rating sound arise with time or was it there just from the first listening you did?
An open mind and practice, and understanding what sonics make/let you feel comfortable and enjoy the music properly.
I have always had a fascination with reproduced sound since a young kid, and with age and experience came to question why different audio gear sounds different.
Enclosure materials used is one of the causes of sonics that soothe me/you, or drive me/you out the room.
Bat-eared can be a PITA i imagine - never satisfied and
hard to believe to the average listener.
You can turn this sense on or off, and according to circumstance a portable radio cassette can be perfectly pleasing, however a bad sounding system is bad in any situation.
Most punters can hear differences when shown, but most are satisfied in anormal domestic situation with a Jap shelf system - they have other priorities in life, so sonics does not matter so long as they can hear the lyrics of their favorite songs.
OTH,Gabe was making a prank
Yeah, I know - you'd think that he would know better by now than to wave red flags like that in the front of the likes of us guys.
Back in a few days, Happy Festive Season To All,
Eric.
Now, steel is magnetic material. Having read that anything magnetic in audio is no good, how come the magnetic enclosure sounds good?
Pete, the steel enclosure is used as a container and not as an audio conductor.
Here we are talking of field effects affecting/effecting sonics, and not the sound of a magnetic conductor component lead etc.
For that matter, I think most magnetic component leads are containing nickel in the wire alloy.
Imo/ime nickel sounds BAD/TOXIC.
Remember those big heavy fat and comfortable sounding Pioneer recievers with wooden lid/sides - they are not so fat and comfortable without the wood.
But RFI/EMI is not always a problem. Is steel really good sounding? From my experience the sonic signature of materials is similar to the sound the given materials produce. Steel seems to be ringing.
Ah good, you are listening.
Yes, iron/steel rings but is not neccesarily a bad sounding ringing, as opposed to aluminium that will take your ears out if you strike a piece.
Titanium has another sound, that is not annoying when struck, and in/on/around a circuit this flavour can be heard.
Big hint - think biologically - imo materials that are required by the body sound nice or at least acceptable, and those that are toxic or interfering with the metabolism sound bad in physical form, and in sonic flavour in/on/around a circuit, and feel bad too in physical form.
Ever stayed in an aluminium caravan or an asbestos panelled house - I have and I could not wait to get out of the room, and I am yet to meet happily energetic people living in such dwellings.
Ever gone into a copper sheet panelled Faraday Cage room - as well as absence of noise, there is a calming feeling in such a room, that is different to that in an anechoic chamber.
I have also tried pieces of low temp superconducting material in/on circuits and it sounds real BAD - full of toxic nasties.
It does take a bat's ears to discern the differences between materials.
Nah, but you do have to understand what you are hearing.
Practice gives ability to discern small variations in spectral/tonal characteristics, and with A/B testing you can learn to diffrentiate the additional sound caused by introducing another material into the whole equation.
An open mind, and a dowsing sense is required also.
Then use the Mr.Feedback carsprings for vibration insulation and you add your own legwork and sonic heaven is in sight.
Yeah, have any of you blockheads tried this yet ?.
Peter, you seem pretty big on mounting feet importance/sonics - tried it out yet ?.
Is it training, the capacity for remembering sounds, the gear or all of that?
Does this kind of rating sound arise with time or was it there just from the first listening you did?
An open mind and practice, and understanding what sonics make/let you feel comfortable and enjoy the music properly.
I have always had a fascination with reproduced sound since a young kid, and with age and experience came to question why different audio gear sounds different.
Enclosure materials used is one of the causes of sonics that soothe me/you, or drive me/you out the room.
Bat-eared can be a PITA i imagine - never satisfied and
hard to believe to the average listener.
You can turn this sense on or off, and according to circumstance a portable radio cassette can be perfectly pleasing, however a bad sounding system is bad in any situation.
Most punters can hear differences when shown, but most are satisfied in anormal domestic situation with a Jap shelf system - they have other priorities in life, so sonics does not matter so long as they can hear the lyrics of their favorite songs.
OTH,Gabe was making a prank
Yeah, I know - you'd think that he would know better by now than to wave red flags like that in the front of the likes of us guys.
Back in a few days, Happy Festive Season To All,
Eric.
mrfeedback, after reading i see some more similarities here.
When i was a kid the only one that was concerned about
quality was me in my whole enviroment. Most speakers just
sounded awfull!
Thats why i started building my own speakers.
I am 33 now and the fascination didn´t stop.
I will go on and after your posts i think i am not that
stupid like my girlfriend wants me to tell
Nice Fest!
When i was a kid the only one that was concerned about
quality was me in my whole enviroment. Most speakers just
sounded awfull!
Thats why i started building my own speakers.
I am 33 now and the fascination didn´t stop.
I will go on and after your posts i think i am not that
stupid like my girlfriend wants me to tell
Nice Fest!
BEFORE I GO ZZZZZ
Hi,
My rule of thumb:
Use an uneven number of spikes.
Experiment with the direction of the pointy part...facing up or down.
Pressure load the one under the heaviest part of you player.
Again experiment by moving it a bit.
For example:the xformer sitting in the left hand corner at the rear.
Put a spike sharp shape facing downwards underneath and put cones pointy side upwards on the bottom of the gear as widely spaced as possible keeping equilibrium at the same time.
Have a listen for a good while,write down your observations.
Reverse the situation,listen again and jot down your observations.
It all makes a difference.
Cheers,
Hi,
My rule of thumb:
Use an uneven number of spikes.
Experiment with the direction of the pointy part...facing up or down.
Pressure load the one under the heaviest part of you player.
Again experiment by moving it a bit.
For example:the xformer sitting in the left hand corner at the rear.
Put a spike sharp shape facing downwards underneath and put cones pointy side upwards on the bottom of the gear as widely spaced as possible keeping equilibrium at the same time.
Have a listen for a good while,write down your observations.
Reverse the situation,listen again and jot down your observations.
It all makes a difference.
Cheers,
OK, yes I was playing a prank, and no, I didn't know better than to do so in front of youze guys.
The only criteria I had for the different chassis is the overall resistance. I myself use the chassis for ground. I also supplement it with 18 gauge stranded wire to all ground points. But without, I hear no real difference either way. Yet... I do hear the difference between wires.
OTOH, If I had a preference, I would choose copper over anything myself.
Other than that, my take on chassis is... how much does it cost and how easy is it to work with? That's it. All the amps I have listened to use the chassis aplenty for grounding.
They sound fabulous.
Also, I was trying to draw out Joel, just for grins and giggles.
Gabe
I'll Say It Again.......
Frank, Hi,
I find most sensitive and intelligent people can distinguish sonic differences when shown - in my experience it is the blockheads who will not/cannot hear differences, and mostly due to industrial deafness I suspect - grinders, disc sanders, industrial machinery etc.
I missed the humour bit, sorry - wombats live underground, so maybe their infrasonic hearing is better than ours - don't really know.
Yes I understand the knuckle test, and yes it is revealing.
I also agree that location and orientation of supports is very much critical - I also consider it a big PITA.
Also very revealing is a light finger touch on excited surfaces.
I am finding that using springs reduces this sensitivity makedly, and smoothens hardness and peakiness that can be caused by solid mountings - cones or spikes.
Cones etc provide solid coupling, and expect sonics to be variably influenced according to coupling point due to nodal behaviour of the surfaces seperated by the cones, and internal resonances and microphonics of the audio devices.
And when consdering speaker cabinets, the mechanical coupling to the room structure, and the vibrational behaviours of the cabinet are very much influenced by the mounting means, and locations of said mountings.
When using springs under equipment or speakers, I find very high mechanical vibrational isolation and return coupling isolation, and I find the resultant sonics to be rather smoother, relaxing and revealing.
Valve springs are ground perfectly flat each end, so provide fine lateral stability, in addition to vertical isolation, and are available for free if you ask.
Eric.
Frank, Hi,
I find most sensitive and intelligent people can distinguish sonic differences when shown - in my experience it is the blockheads who will not/cannot hear differences, and mostly due to industrial deafness I suspect - grinders, disc sanders, industrial machinery etc.
I missed the humour bit, sorry - wombats live underground, so maybe their infrasonic hearing is better than ours - don't really know.
Yes I understand the knuckle test, and yes it is revealing.
I also agree that location and orientation of supports is very much critical - I also consider it a big PITA.
Also very revealing is a light finger touch on excited surfaces.
I am finding that using springs reduces this sensitivity makedly, and smoothens hardness and peakiness that can be caused by solid mountings - cones or spikes.
Cones etc provide solid coupling, and expect sonics to be variably influenced according to coupling point due to nodal behaviour of the surfaces seperated by the cones, and internal resonances and microphonics of the audio devices.
And when consdering speaker cabinets, the mechanical coupling to the room structure, and the vibrational behaviours of the cabinet are very much influenced by the mounting means, and locations of said mountings.
When using springs under equipment or speakers, I find very high mechanical vibrational isolation and return coupling isolation, and I find the resultant sonics to be rather smoother, relaxing and revealing.
Valve springs are ground perfectly flat each end, so provide fine lateral stability, in addition to vertical isolation, and are available for free if you ask.
Eric.
Well, I can only hope that this chassiss will have very little sound of it's own.
Motivated by this thread I decided to build an open concept chassiss with very little aluminum, mostly acrylic and the parts which were only necessary. No jackets on Black Gates this time.
This is another version of a gainclone.
Motivated by this thread I decided to build an open concept chassiss with very little aluminum, mostly acrylic and the parts which were only necessary. No jackets on Black Gates this time.
This is another version of a gainclone.
Attachments
NJAM NJAM...
Hi,
Seems the alu master has gone acrylic...
Not a bad idea, acrylic has good self damping props.
Congrats Mr.Daniel! You've surpassed yourself again.
Eric would fit some engine coils beneath,I would fit some damped cones...point is to find resonant nodes and get rid of them.
Lovely stuff!
Hi,
Seems the alu master has gone acrylic...
Not a bad idea, acrylic has good self damping props.
Congrats Mr.Daniel! You've surpassed yourself again.
Eric would fit some engine coils beneath,I would fit some damped cones...point is to find resonant nodes and get rid of them.
Lovely stuff!
Peter: Those are the Cardas binding posts, right? May I suggest that you machine and tap replacement end-caps (the "nut" that you tighten down to secure the spade lugs) out of something non-conductive like Delrin? There is a possibility that you may hear some positive sonic difference, especially if the amplifier won't be asked to pass gobs of current...
regards, jonathan carr
regards, jonathan carr
KANGOROO
Hi,
Compliance,sir,compliance...
Too stiff a cone or spike will not isolate properly.
I can't recommend these under any apparatus that needs a solid point of reference to earth.
Examples are TT and CDP.
You need to isolate and dampen straneous vibes.
LS need a very solid point to ground to work properly,anything springy there will represent a loss of energy,information IMO.
Remember CLS?
See my contributions (eeek!) to the DIY TT thread.
Being my normal PITA,
Hi,
Compliance,sir,compliance...
Too stiff a cone or spike will not isolate properly.
I can't recommend these under any apparatus that needs a solid point of reference to earth.
Examples are TT and CDP.
You need to isolate and dampen straneous vibes.
LS need a very solid point to ground to work properly,anything springy there will represent a loss of energy,information IMO.
Remember CLS?
See my contributions (eeek!) to the DIY TT thread.
Being my normal PITA,
I'll try different nuts. The heat sinks were bought surplus. After seeing what can be done out of them I bought the whole remaining stock (12pcs.). The tube is not structural. The amp's size is 6" x 8".
The whole chassiss rests on 3 spikes. Front plate is attached to acrylic block, the white part (teflon like) is used for supporting the caps (and also for damping) and is attached to the acrylic block and heatsinks.
The whole chassiss rests on 3 spikes. Front plate is attached to acrylic block, the white part (teflon like) is used for supporting the caps (and also for damping) and is attached to the acrylic block and heatsinks.
Attachments
Efficiency, Sir, Efficiency...
"Too stiff a cone or spike will not isolate properly.".
Umm, all the cones or spikes I have seen are solid metal, and provide complete coupling - no compliance at all.
"LS need a very solid point to ground to work properly,anything springy there will represent a loss of energy,information IMO."
I have gone counter to this old argument/reasoning, and find the springs to give near perfect isolation.
When under equipment, virtually zero motion is coupled from the supporting shelf, even when the shelf is buzzing like crazy.
When under speakers, very little vibration is transferred to the supporting shelf.
I find this allows bigger and more tunefull bass, friendlier mids, and SPL goes up - energy is not mechanically transferred to the shelf, and all the energy is transduced by the driver/box combination, and virtually none to the shelf.
I am finding that this lossless high compliance mounting method does not cause extra resonances, and reduces natural ones.
"Remember CLS?"
Aaaahh, no. What is that ?.
Eric.
"Too stiff a cone or spike will not isolate properly.".
Umm, all the cones or spikes I have seen are solid metal, and provide complete coupling - no compliance at all.
"LS need a very solid point to ground to work properly,anything springy there will represent a loss of energy,information IMO."
I have gone counter to this old argument/reasoning, and find the springs to give near perfect isolation.
When under equipment, virtually zero motion is coupled from the supporting shelf, even when the shelf is buzzing like crazy.
When under speakers, very little vibration is transferred to the supporting shelf.
I find this allows bigger and more tunefull bass, friendlier mids, and SPL goes up - energy is not mechanically transferred to the shelf, and all the energy is transduced by the driver/box combination, and virtually none to the shelf.
I am finding that this lossless high compliance mounting method does not cause extra resonances, and reduces natural ones.
"Remember CLS?"
Aaaahh, no. What is that ?.
Eric.
Peter
Your latest clone is giving me the creeps. Apart from a nice but wasted chunk of acrylic what are these horror structures on the side? I hope selenium rectifiers, as if they're heatsinks all the vibtration controll efforts are wasted. They do remind of late seventies Sony and ring in most unmusical manner.
cheers
peter
Your latest clone is giving me the creeps. Apart from a nice but wasted chunk of acrylic what are these horror structures on the side? I hope selenium rectifiers, as if they're heatsinks all the vibtration controll efforts are wasted. They do remind of late seventies Sony and ring in most unmusical manner.
cheers
peter
DAMP AND BE DAMNED
Hi,
You're talking shelf speakies or what?
Nah,man...A speaker,a floorstander I mean,should have a solid reference to ground.
Yep,depending on what you use 'em for,O.K.
But...if they're not effective at absorbing energy you're better off with the spring you're using IMO.
Cones with gradual damping do exist and are a good alternative.
Cheers,
Hi,
You're talking shelf speakies or what?
Nah,man...A speaker,a floorstander I mean,should have a solid reference to ground.
Yep,depending on what you use 'em for,O.K.
But...if they're not effective at absorbing energy you're better off with the spring you're using IMO.
Cones with gradual damping do exist and are a good alternative.
Cheers,
CLS
Hi,
CLS:constrained layer damping.
See above for more info or in a nutshell:
Damping various materials by applying a certain amount of pressure between (or on) them.
Peter Daniel use it (maybe without being aware of the principles involved) with his granite,expanded foam support.
Cheers,
Hi,
CLS:constrained layer damping.
See above for more info or in a nutshell:
Damping various materials by applying a certain amount of pressure between (or on) them.
Peter Daniel use it (maybe without being aware of the principles involved) with his granite,expanded foam support.
Cheers,
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