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Old 29th December 2002, 01:24 PM   #71
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Default PITA Tuning Factor....

I don't recall that. I was probably taking the ****.
Yeah, you're always taking the ****, and good thing too.
Point to point wiring, nuclear physicist etc - remember.

I make all my own cables (and have for years), and always bring it off the spool, cut and align each conductor/length for direction.
What are you making and what results.

I don't think it's a huge effect (actually quite minor), but as they say God is in the details.
Yes, I agree that it ought to be a minor detail, but on many systems it can be a reasonably big deal, I have found (PITA Factor).
Mssr mike VanSevers has some good things to say but some of the sensitivities that he and his customers report ought not to be nearly so great if better circuit techniques and component choices, and mechanical techniques were incorporated.
I understand that rock solid and non reactive/dependent systems with good circuit topologies lessens the effect bigtime, but this is usually expensive, and therefore relatively unusual.
I also understand and agree that most systems are strongly reactive, and therefore require tuning.
The trick is in setting up the most appropriate or enjoyable tuning, and this is what makes or breaks an otherwise nice system.
I differ, or more so understand levels further than what he describes, but good on him for saying and doing what he does.

Circuit topology is at least an order of magnitude more important.
Cheers

Sure, see above, but circuit techniques are not the last word.
Cheers from me too.

Eric.
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Old 29th December 2002, 11:55 PM   #72
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Default TUNING THE CAR.

Hi,

IME,the higher the resoltion of the system the more it is worthwile to pay attention to detail.

Eric,

Have you tried mass loading the top of the speakers?
Do the speakers stay put on the same spot when spring mounted?

Quote:
The trick is in setting up the most appropriate or enjoyable tuning, and this is what makes or breaks an otherwise nice system.
Yep.


All,

Has cable directivity been discussed in depth on the forum?
And I do mean anything other than my own droppings on the subject.

Brett,

I agree with you that a given circuit has to work at its' best.
After that you look to optimize its' symbyosis within the system.
All too often I run in so called "high end" systems that just can't work together.
Sad but true.

Cheers,
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Old 30th December 2002, 12:22 AM   #73
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Hi Frank,
"Have you tried mass loading the top of the speakers?
Do the speakers stay put on the same spot when spring mounted?

The speakers stay exactly put (no rocking or shaking or walking off the springs), and I have not put any significant mass on top, because long previous experimentation then showed change of sonic character when damping the top panel of the cabinet (along the lines of placing a cab on carpet damps the bottom panel).
So far I like the results bigtime on all the systems that I have tried this on.

"Has cable directivity been discussed in depth on the forum? "
Yeah, long time ago, but of course there were a whole heap of 'experts' who vigourously maintained that a piece of wire is a piece of wire and therefore it cannot have the property of directional characteristic.
Feel free to add some more of your experience.

Eric.
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Old 30th December 2002, 12:46 AM   #74
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Default NO KIDDING?

Hi,

Well..as we're off topic as it is.

First point: yes mass loading the top of a speaker will change the sound.
Physics tell me though that everything that moves loses energy so naturally I look for a solid reference for the cone to move not the cabinet along with it.
I need to try your set-up and untill then I bow to your experience.

Second point:

Cable directivity:

What if we debunked that myth once and for all?
It deserves a thread all of its' own where one could present facts along with listening experiences.
Before we start anything let me check what I said already about directivity,cryo treatment and how a wire sees life at the factory.
There is also the topic of running in wires (components) and matters like quantum physics that come into play.

Could be fun,
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Old 30th December 2002, 01:59 AM   #75
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Default Bouncing Things Around.....

Hi,

"Physics tell me though that everything that moves loses energy so naturally I look for a solid reference for the cone to move not the cabinet along with it."

Sure, everything that moves against a braking force will lose energy.
As I see it, the driver and box form a discrete system, and all the input energy (neglecting electrical resistive losses) can be made to exit to the air by the moving cone and the excited cabinet.
Cones in my view are a solid coupling, so will transfer energy from the cabinet to the supporting floor or shelf, and in so doing cause the floor or shelf to be an additional radiator, and also alter the resonances within the cabinet structure itself.
By spring mounting, the driver/cabinet system is allowed to be itself, and very little energy is lost to the supporting surface.
Effectively allowing the cabinet to 'float' allows it to resonate at its natural modes and of course this may be, or may not be pleasing, according to the cabinet characteristics.
I find that the driver to box stiffness/mass is well sufficient, and effectively adding extra stiffness by mounting on cones is actually deleterious to both overall efficiency and musicality.
I tried springs under my Infinities and CD-94 at my GF's place on the weekend, and the result was the same as previous experiments.
Overall the sound was bigger, liver, better depth and rather more musical and entertaining.
I caught myself tapping my heels unconciously, and when I looked my GF was doing the same.
Previously on very good systems I have unconciously tapped my toes, but not my heels.
Of course, good company, good food and a few whiskies helped the percieved musicality , but outdoor backyard sound checks revealed a very pleasing sound going over the fences.
So far I reckon springs are a winner.
Probably next sunday, I will get the chance to place springs under a mates bass rig and some pa cabs at a pub beergarden live show (rock/blues) and see what results we get.

"What if we debunked that myth once and for all?"
Not sure what you mean there - wire has direction, or not direction ?.

Eric.
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Old 30th December 2002, 02:12 AM   #76
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Default AGAINST THE GRAIN.

Hi Eric,

Still not convinced...but I'l try it out and report back.

Quote:
Not sure what you mean there - wire has direction, or not direction ?.
Yes it has.
There is more to tell than just that though.
It pays to know how wires are made from alpha to omega.
A factory tour perhaps?

Cheers pall,
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Old 30th December 2002, 04:54 AM   #77
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Default Re: Re: Re: Ex. Hovland Tech.?

Quote:
Originally posted by Brett

LMAO!
Is that why you were only there for 6 weeks?

You may have built better sounding amps <i>in your mind</i>, but were any of them Stereophile Class A rated?
I left Hovland because a much better and closer job came up at Groovetubes.

I got to know the Hovland sound very well and a set of high gm triode-pentodes can beat the pants off of any 12ax7 based preamp. The el34 power amp they market is good but current hungry 6as7 srpp para-feed will resolve crotch scratches in the cello section. Now as for the blue glow---Well,, my rats nest designs will not go over too well at Stereophile.

Robert Morin
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Old 30th December 2002, 05:10 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wombat
No need of halucinogens, just some red wine...
Red wine isn't a halucigen?

dave
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Old 30th December 2002, 09:07 AM   #79
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I have to admit this wine really makes me feel different!

Seems like there is something in there that makes me cloudy.
I sometimes feel something strange after a bottle or so.

Or it is only the alcohol ?
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Old 30th December 2002, 07:45 PM   #80
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A chassis is more than just an RFI shield for manufactured components. It is also a place to connect things like interconnects, speaker cables, and power cords. If this is DIY, why not just let let these extend straight into the component and eliminate a costly interface. Admittedly this might affect versitility, but then, I for one don't move my stuff around very much.
Joe
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