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Old 17th December 2002, 05:53 PM   #11
Joel is offline Joel  United States
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Default Re: Re: CAP TEST

Quote:
Originally posted by Christer
Where did you find this info? It certainly adds a lot of valuable
info and should have been published along with the test.
It was. It's on the bottom of the page christer.
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Old 17th December 2002, 05:54 PM   #12
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Default CAP TEST

Hi,

Christer,

That info was published on the bottom of the page.

Surely anyone can argue about this and that not being how they would have done it.
Hey,we do that all the time here,right?
I'm sure that SB has a lot of credentials though,he's has a very impressive trackrecord.

Ciao,
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Old 17th December 2002, 05:59 PM   #13
Joel is offline Joel  United States
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Default Re: CAP TEST

Quote:
Originally posted by fdegrove
I'm sure that SB has a lot of credentials though,he's has a very impressive trackrecord.
Frank, I'm not attacking steve bench, or his credentials. As christer said, steve's website is used as "proof" all the time, and I'm wondering if it's applicable to audio or not. I am also curious what the setup looks like.
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Old 17th December 2002, 06:23 PM   #14
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Seems we were all right. The info on the test setup was
nowhere to read on the page I linked to. However, after your
claims to the contrary I found that Joel and I have obviously
linked to two different version of the page, in my case one
without this info. I just copied the link from the other thread
where it was brought up, so Joel must have found his link
somewhere else.

Furthermore, don't get me wrong, I think both the test and
its claimed results are very interesting, especially since it seems
to correlate to what people think of the various capacitors
sonically. However, the test is no proof in any reasonable sense,
but an interesting starting point for those who feel tempted
to do more rigorous tests. When I think more about it, I wonder
if this test is anything new, or just new to audio? I think what
the test actually aims to measure is the dielectric absorbtion,
which also what audio people usually claims as the explanation
for the sonic results.
This phenomenon is well-known in electronics, however, so
there should most likely be more extensive tests done
somewhere in the literature, or at least by manufacturers of
capacitors.
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Old 17th December 2002, 06:24 PM   #15
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Default SB tests

Re: yes!

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by dorkus
http://members.aol.com/sbench102/caps.html
[snip]and of course the non-film types look completely different altogether.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



At any rate is shows that if you put 70VRMS, which is some 200V Pk-Pk on a 100V (or lower, logic bypass) capacitor that the cap starts to break down. Very subtle indeed.

Jan Didden
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Old 17th December 2002, 06:42 PM   #16
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Default CAP TESTS

Hi,

Quote:
if this test is anything new, or just new to audio? I think what
No,absolutely not.
Similar tests like that were actually carried out by the French and published in issues of the "L'audiophile" magazine.
And that was actually in the seventies and eighties.

Yes you are correct,SB shows the influence of dielectric material at audio frequencies.

All in all an interesting test since it clearly shows that the superior materials actually also measure better.
And this then "proves" what listeners experience when upgrading to a superior capacitor.

Cheers,
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Old 17th December 2002, 06:48 PM   #17
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Well, but SB then actually doesn't show anything new at all,
I think. The different dielectric properties of various capacitors
is well known in electronics, so he just demonstrates what is
already known, or...? As for the sonic results, we might say
there is some kind of correlation, although not in the statistic
sense. Some people may wish to use the word proof carelessly,
I don't.
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Old 17th December 2002, 06:49 PM   #18
Joel is offline Joel  United States
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Frank,
We already know everyone's opinion on the matter, including mine and your's. That's not what this post is about. I specifically asked for a schematic of the test circuit, and an evaluation of the measure of deviation from linear. Neither have been answered.
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Old 17th December 2002, 07:02 PM   #19
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Default CAP TESTS

Joel,

If you're mad about that then I really don't understand what this thread is about.

It is however what the test by S.B. was about.
I did not even express MY opinion but a fact.

If you care to dig into industrial manuals or product datasheets you will frequently find graphs showing freqency responses of various caps.

You notice the differences in frequency response versus dielitric absortion etc.

Cheers, (looky,I keep smiling)
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Old 17th December 2002, 07:12 PM   #20
Joel is offline Joel  United States
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I was only "mad" because you made a statement like this:
And this then "proves" what listeners experience when upgrading to a superior capacitor.

The test may show that, or it may not. That is what I'd like proven.

Let me give you an example: there are measuring devices that will clearly show you in New York when there is an earthquake in California. But obviously no one in NY said "hey I feel an earthquake!!!!".
Steve (and the manuals) are showing problems with the dieletrics under certain conditions? Ok. But does his measurement show that the non-linearities deviate by what should be an audible amount? He doesn't say, and neither does anyone else.
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