Hi guys,
I have a bunch of parts on order and I am about to start punching out the chassis for my amp. I have some teflon insulated silver tinned stranded instrumentation wire #18 and I have some teflon insulated solid copper #18. Which would be preferable for hookup? I know that the solid copper would be easier to work with. I don't want to start another debate I just need some good advice. Thanks.
G
I have a bunch of parts on order and I am about to start punching out the chassis for my amp. I have some teflon insulated silver tinned stranded instrumentation wire #18 and I have some teflon insulated solid copper #18. Which would be preferable for hookup? I know that the solid copper would be easier to work with. I don't want to start another debate I just need some good advice. Thanks.
G
G,G said:
I use solid core, except in power cords (which I'm pretty sure I'm not allowed to by law). Inside an amp, most of the time I use quality magnet wire, in the smallest guage I need. Stranded wire, and silver plate have been tried in the past, and for a number of reasons failed, except in PSU cabling where flexibilty and insulation are a prime consideration. Cabling for my pre and 4 poweramps will owe me about $20, and I still have lots left on the spools.
Dr Malcolm Hawkesford (Essex University) has written a good, but heavy in maths paper on cables, analysing them from first principles, and solid core is one of the recommendations drawn from it. My use of solid core predates my knowledge of this paper by several years after a tip I got from a great engineer/diyer.
That said, internal cabling is a small part of the circuit voice, well behind topology and PSU in importance.
Enjoy
Hawksford couldn't get that paper published in any reputable journal. Draw your own conclusion.
Stranded wire is probably a little better for reliability reasons in an environment where one expects vibration. However, see some of the caveats that Bob Pease pointed out in his excellent book on analog troubleshooting. And I note an old Dyna integrated that I use in my lab, which functions just fine despite 30 years of use. It's done up with solid core.
Stranded wire is probably a little better for reliability reasons in an environment where one expects vibration. However, see some of the caveats that Bob Pease pointed out in his excellent book on analog troubleshooting. And I note an old Dyna integrated that I use in my lab, which functions just fine despite 30 years of use. It's done up with solid core.
SOLID CORE
Hi,
Tyler,I don't mind at all to start a thread on that...only I and others expressed already what we had to say about it in various
threads here.
May I be as bold as to suggest to do a search on the words "solid core" at the forum?
If you still feel hungry after that,I and no doubt others will be happy to feed you.
Brett,All,
That may be true for commercial powercords.(I refer to the legal caveat)
For home use however I recommend you try to replace ALL of your powercords with solid core 2.5mm/AWG? or whatever the size you have running inside your walls, twisted wire and sit down and listen.
Don't forget any distribution strips etc.
And please do report back.
Cheers,
Hi,
Tyler,I don't mind at all to start a thread on that...only I and others expressed already what we had to say about it in various
threads here.
May I be as bold as to suggest to do a search on the words "solid core" at the forum?
If you still feel hungry after that,I and no doubt others will be happy to feed you.
Brett,All,
That may be true for commercial powercords.(I refer to the legal caveat)
For home use however I recommend you try to replace ALL of your powercords with solid core 2.5mm/AWG? or whatever the size you have running inside your walls, twisted wire and sit down and listen.
Don't forget any distribution strips etc.
And please do report back.
Cheers,
DONE THAT...
Hi,
Litz wire is pretty much open to your definition of it I guess.
I don't know for the rest of you but I've seen it in both solid core and mutistrand weaves and all kinds of differnt pattern weaves too.
Often it does get too capacitive for me.
Some SS amps already baulk at the mere sight of it sooo...
Ciao,
Hi,
Litz wire is pretty much open to your definition of it I guess.
I don't know for the rest of you but I've seen it in both solid core and mutistrand weaves and all kinds of differnt pattern weaves too.
Often it does get too capacitive for me.
Some SS amps already baulk at the mere sight of it sooo...
Ciao,
Solid core wire in higher current applications starts to suffer from what is known as "skin effect". This is the majority of the current travelling closer to the outside of the solid wire instead of through it. With stranded wire you simply have more surface area of wire so it is no big deal. For amps drawing small amounts of current it is no big deal, but for a big Class A drawing lots of current I'd go stranded on my power cord. A 20 amp circuit when loaded to capacity doesn't care wether you call it commercial or residential. In the States a house is calculated at 3 va per sq. ft. for branch circuit loads. In a commercial building each plug it calculated at 180 va. Overseas, the voltage is higher which lowers the current draw.
I use solid silver for hookup if I have it. If not, OFC stranded with a teflon insulation. The silver has a different sound than the OFC or the cheap stuff. I rigged up my preamp with switchable inputs with the different types so I could A-B them. It was neat just to hear the difference.
I use solid silver for hookup if I have it. If not, OFC stranded with a teflon insulation. The silver has a different sound than the OFC or the cheap stuff. I rigged up my preamp with switchable inputs with the different types so I could A-B them. It was neat just to hear the difference.
AWG.
Hi,
Assuming you talk about powercords,who cares about skineffect?
And what is the point in using powercords able to carry more current when the wire in the wall is limited to say 25A AND is a solid core BTW?
According to studies carried out electron penetration is no more than 0.4mm for AC signal carriage.
Let's keep our feet on the ground here please,
Hi,
Assuming you talk about powercords,who cares about skineffect?
And what is the point in using powercords able to carry more current when the wire in the wall is limited to say 25A AND is a solid core BTW?
According to studies carried out electron penetration is no more than 0.4mm for AC signal carriage.
Let's keep our feet on the ground here please,
Frank:
You can assume that I am talking about power cords. My post was in response to your suggestion at replacing stranded power cords with solid. If you want the outside surface of your solid wire slowly breaking down and turning black as it decreases in size then so be it. How much current can a 2.5mm solid wire safely carry before it burns up?
There is absolutely no point in using a larger wire (safety wise) than is in the wall and was not implied by my post. However, you can not reach inside your wall and wiggle that solid wire until it breaks. That is why most power cords are made out of stranded wire. Solid core wire is cheaper and that is why it is used in your wall where you can't access it. Solid core wire does not hold up as well outside the wall, not to mention the smallest nick in the wire where you terminate it becomes a weak point. Two or three good bends and it will break.
I have no idea what " lets keep our feet on the ground" is supposed to mean. Did my post come off as sounding condescending? All I try to do is offer help. Some of the members here have no idea what safe power wiring procedures are. Thanks for your view
You can assume that I am talking about power cords. My post was in response to your suggestion at replacing stranded power cords with solid. If you want the outside surface of your solid wire slowly breaking down and turning black as it decreases in size then so be it. How much current can a 2.5mm solid wire safely carry before it burns up?
There is absolutely no point in using a larger wire (safety wise) than is in the wall and was not implied by my post. However, you can not reach inside your wall and wiggle that solid wire until it breaks. That is why most power cords are made out of stranded wire. Solid core wire is cheaper and that is why it is used in your wall where you can't access it. Solid core wire does not hold up as well outside the wall, not to mention the smallest nick in the wire where you terminate it becomes a weak point. Two or three good bends and it will break.
I have no idea what " lets keep our feet on the ground" is supposed to mean. Did my post come off as sounding condescending? All I try to do is offer help. Some of the members here have no idea what safe power wiring procedures are. Thanks for your view
ALRIGHT
Hi Skippy,
O.K.I see your point.
My concern however is not so much the risk of breaking wires but a sonic one.
I should have been more clear in my statement.
So here goes:
We all have some solid core wires inside the wall providing power now,don't we?
It doesn't matter what gauge it is.
What matters here is continuity of the "type"of wire.
In casu solid core versus multistrand.
What I invited people to do is to replace the mutistrand powercord with similarly gauged solid core as they have inside the walls.
Now,I realize this would be rather stiff and unpleasing esthetically
but it pays.
My powercords don't get moved about all that much and I can only say none of them ever developped a fault over 10 years of (ab)use.
Sonically however it has been one of the cheapest upgrades I ever came across.
Let me restate that is not a viable solution for commercial product as it may be breaching safety regulations depending on country.
However it is a very worthwhile tweak for home use.
Cheers,
Hi Skippy,
O.K.I see your point.
My concern however is not so much the risk of breaking wires but a sonic one.
I should have been more clear in my statement.
So here goes:
We all have some solid core wires inside the wall providing power now,don't we?
It doesn't matter what gauge it is.
What matters here is continuity of the "type"of wire.
In casu solid core versus multistrand.
What I invited people to do is to replace the mutistrand powercord with similarly gauged solid core as they have inside the walls.
Now,I realize this would be rather stiff and unpleasing esthetically
but it pays.
My powercords don't get moved about all that much and I can only say none of them ever developped a fault over 10 years of (ab)use.
Sonically however it has been one of the cheapest upgrades I ever came across.
Let me restate that is not a viable solution for commercial product as it may be breaching safety regulations depending on country.
However it is a very worthwhile tweak for home use.
Cheers,
I will have to try that and give a listen. Did you also twist in a ground ?
Some older homes in the US do not have a ground wire running back to the panel. Each member should be aware of the shortcomings of their electrical systems. In certain situations, your equipments case could become energized due to the absence of a ground path. Allways fuse the hot (black) wire and never the nuetral (white). Wire color codes change from country to country. Be Sure, because sooner or later I'll need help from one of you, and I'd rather you be here to give it.
Some older homes in the US do not have a ground wire running back to the panel. Each member should be aware of the shortcomings of their electrical systems. In certain situations, your equipments case could become energized due to the absence of a ground path. Allways fuse the hot (black) wire and never the nuetral (white). Wire color codes change from country to country. Be Sure, because sooner or later I'll need help from one of you, and I'd rather you be here to give it.
ROCKSOLID.
Hello,
Yes,I did use a much smaller gauge wire form grounding purposes.
Grounding may be tricky at some locations as you say,in Europe it is rather well implemented.
Anyone can however experiment with it according to what device is actually attached to the powercord but I would advise to respect safety regulations at alltimes.
So,basically you use three wires,two solid cores for hot and neutral and a smaller gauge for ground.
I then attach the entire lenght of wires to a fixed binding post at one end and the other end to a drill.
Use a slow speed so you obtain a regular twist that is neither too loose nor too tight.
I used a nylon woven braid to make it all look more professional and more pleasing to the eye.
The connectors I use are of course our standard IEC the pronged ones.
While we're at it,it also pays to check for correct polarity of all devices connected and mark it before you connect all together.
That too pays off big time and does not cost a dime.
All you need to do is use a DVM set for a low current reading and measure the leakage current of the connected and powered on device by putting the hot (red) lead on the chassis and ground (black) probe put to ground (earth).
Only connect one device at the time.
Reverse the powercords' polarity once or twice till you find the lowest leakage current and note the polarity on the powercord.
You may need a cheater plug for this.
Enjoy the music,
Hello,
Yes,I did use a much smaller gauge wire form grounding purposes.
Grounding may be tricky at some locations as you say,in Europe it is rather well implemented.
Anyone can however experiment with it according to what device is actually attached to the powercord but I would advise to respect safety regulations at alltimes.
So,basically you use three wires,two solid cores for hot and neutral and a smaller gauge for ground.
I then attach the entire lenght of wires to a fixed binding post at one end and the other end to a drill.
Use a slow speed so you obtain a regular twist that is neither too loose nor too tight.
I used a nylon woven braid to make it all look more professional and more pleasing to the eye.
The connectors I use are of course our standard IEC the pronged ones.
While we're at it,it also pays to check for correct polarity of all devices connected and mark it before you connect all together.
That too pays off big time and does not cost a dime.
All you need to do is use a DVM set for a low current reading and measure the leakage current of the connected and powered on device by putting the hot (red) lead on the chassis and ground (black) probe put to ground (earth).
Only connect one device at the time.
Reverse the powercords' polarity once or twice till you find the lowest leakage current and note the polarity on the powercord.
You may need a cheater plug for this.
Enjoy the music,
LEAKAGE CURRENT
Hi,
That depends a lot on the gear your measuring but if you set the DVM to mA your safe.
Some stuff out there deserves a sinbin sentence for the degree of current leakage alone...
There are special "polarity testers" on the market but if you're a bit clever then you will realize that DVM does give you exactly the same results albeit it with a little bit more effort.
Cheers,
Hi,
That depends a lot on the gear your measuring but if you set the DVM to mA your safe.
Some stuff out there deserves a sinbin sentence for the degree of current leakage alone...
There are special "polarity testers" on the market but if you're a bit clever then you will realize that DVM does give you exactly the same results albeit it with a little bit more effort.
Cheers,
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