Hi all,
As we were refering to 83's toxicity in a rencent post.
I wonder what kind of SS replacement it will be possible to make (in respect of 83's spec. (constant drop of about 15V even with current peaks, if my memory is good)).
I own a Hickock I177-B transconductance meter that use a 83 (and have the bad taste to use it horizontaly, that doesn't make me feel secure ... when I think it was made for battlefields
)
But for a measuring tool the SS version have to be very close to the 83.
Any ideas/experiences ?
As we were refering to 83's toxicity in a rencent post.
I wonder what kind of SS replacement it will be possible to make (in respect of 83's spec. (constant drop of about 15V even with current peaks, if my memory is good)).
I own a Hickock I177-B transconductance meter that use a 83 (and have the bad taste to use it horizontaly, that doesn't make me feel secure ... when I think it was made for battlefields
)But for a measuring tool the SS version have to be very close to the 83.
Any ideas/experiences ?
Hi bembel,
I am surrounded by testers with '83's in them. Relax.
The closest thing would be silicon rectifiers. The problem is that you may have to recalibrate your tester. They compensated for the heater current in the transformer and the plate voltage when they designed the tester.
Never having replaced an '83 with a pair of diodes, I don't have any idea how much of a change there would be. Possibly none.
-Chris
I am surrounded by testers with '83's in them. Relax.
The closest thing would be silicon rectifiers. The problem is that you may have to recalibrate your tester. They compensated for the heater current in the transformer and the plate voltage when they designed the tester.
Never having replaced an '83 with a pair of diodes, I don't have any idea how much of a change there would be. Possibly none.
-Chris
Thx for your replies,
I think that the problem of using it horizontally (as you said, not allowed in the datasheet), is that mercury is not in a steady state, but floating between solid state & gazeous @ room temperature, I think that when it is warmed-up it's more gazeous, and then there is less risk of short circuit !!! (that's why I warm-up the tester verticaly before use)
Have you look inside a 83@~20°C ??? you can clearly see solid mercury settle in the bottom of the tube near electrodes-base junction.
A better bet of hard shorts, than winning something a the lottery.
This said, I think military conceptors have nothing to care about soldiers lives (there's nothing about dangerousity in the original manual, neither tester position, I won't debate neither of the "funny"
smell of tropicalisation that fill the room when you use it !)
Anyway I think it would be interresting to find a alternative to such potentially dangerous devices that are still usefull. (I think it's worth a small adjustement, surely not a reconception)
PS: I can post a photo a 83 if it can help.
In french soldiers nickname is "chair à canon"
I think that the problem of using it horizontally (as you said, not allowed in the datasheet), is that mercury is not in a steady state, but floating between solid state & gazeous @ room temperature, I think that when it is warmed-up it's more gazeous, and then there is less risk of short circuit !!! (that's why I warm-up the tester verticaly before use)
Have you look inside a 83@~20°C ??? you can clearly see solid mercury settle in the bottom of the tube near electrodes-base junction.
A better bet of hard shorts, than winning something a the lottery.
This said, I think military conceptors have nothing to care about soldiers lives (there's nothing about dangerousity in the original manual, neither tester position, I won't debate neither of the "funny"
smell of tropicalisation that fill the room when you use it !)Anyway I think it would be interresting to find a alternative to such potentially dangerous devices that are still usefull. (I think it's worth a small adjustement, surely not a reconception)
PS: I can post a photo a 83 if it can help.
In french soldiers nickname is "chair à canon"
Hi bembel,
Most tester manuals instruct you to warm the unit up for 20 min or so. Using mine for many years, I have yet to have even a hint of a problem. Same tube it came with. Mine is a Stark 9-66. It is built undr license from Hickok and the 83 is mounted horizontally. I have another in an old Hammond power supply. It is mounted vertically. That I've have for 35 years or more.
-Chris
Most tester manuals instruct you to warm the unit up for 20 min or so. Using mine for many years, I have yet to have even a hint of a problem. Same tube it came with. Mine is a Stark 9-66. It is built undr license from Hickok and the 83 is mounted horizontally. I have another in an old Hammond power supply. It is mounted vertically. That I've have for 35 years or more.
-Chris
i read somewhere that horizontal mounting is ok as long as the heaters are the ones at the bottom.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Will a Mercury rectifier sound better than a vaccum state one? or a solid state one? I guess the real question is, why were Mercury rectifiers ever used? I understand that at the time, no one knew that Mercury was as toxic as the gates of hell. but what sets them apart?
don't worry, I don't plan to use one
I prefer to be
as apposed to
don't worry, I don't plan to use one
I prefer to be
as apposed to
Hi alexmoose,
The problem with comparing the sound of these things is that they each have their own advantages and disadvantages. In a properly designed power supply for a preamp, I don't think you would ever hear a difference.
As a guess, a mercury rectifier would probably share the same characteristics as a solid state rectifier. The disadvantage is the long warm up time before you can load them. They didn't have reliable silicon rectifiers back then, so they invented the next best thing. I don't have a problem with the concept of designing a new unit with them, as long as it's not just for style. Use them for their intended purpose.
Personally I think we are making a mistake about that. Darwin would agree.
-Chris
The problem with comparing the sound of these things is that they each have their own advantages and disadvantages. In a properly designed power supply for a preamp, I don't think you would ever hear a difference.
As a guess, a mercury rectifier would probably share the same characteristics as a solid state rectifier. The disadvantage is the long warm up time before you can load them. They didn't have reliable silicon rectifiers back then, so they invented the next best thing. I don't have a problem with the concept of designing a new unit with them, as long as it's not just for style. Use them for their intended purpose.
Sure they did! They were pretty intelligent about these things. The only difference between then and now is back then they allowed natural selection to operate freely. Today, we strive to protect idiots from themselves.
Personally I think we are making a mistake about that. Darwin would agree.
-Chris
Hmmm I do not know how old this thread is but it begs the question :what would be the difference if a SS 83 drop-in was used? Ignoring the needed resistor needed to compensate for filament voltage and current loss.I mean I have the Tungsol,GE and RCA "curves" for the tube and looking at it I am not so sure SS diodes can match those curves verbatim.and if they can't be made to behave like an 83 verbatim wouldn't that still affect the signal, even if marginally? ..
Still even as green as I am I can't help but wonder.
Still even as green as I am I can't help but wonder.
What sounds best is a rock-solid power supply. (For audio reproduction)
The 83 Mercury tube is a vacuum tube.
Vacuum rectifiers can "sag" voltage under power spikes that alters the sound, ie it can't handle the peaks if pushed hard.
This may be wanted, in the case of a vintage sounding type guitar amplifier.
This won't be wanted in music reproduction or "HiFi"
Not to say that tube rectification is bad, if the current drawn is low enough.
I went with SS power supply in my amp.
If it's properly designed, the power supply should be invisible, you want to picture it as one big battery. How it's charged and what brand it is won't be noticed until there is no enough power.
Some talk about SS rectifiers having "hash" noise etc. I can't hear anything at all. There are some diodes that are supposed to be better for this if wanted.
Embrace it, it's one of the few things in tube audio were a valve can replaced with a modern. maintenance free component and have a positive result in audio application.
The 83 Mercury tube is a vacuum tube.
Vacuum rectifiers can "sag" voltage under power spikes that alters the sound, ie it can't handle the peaks if pushed hard.
This may be wanted, in the case of a vintage sounding type guitar amplifier.
This won't be wanted in music reproduction or "HiFi"
Not to say that tube rectification is bad, if the current drawn is low enough.
I went with SS power supply in my amp.
If it's properly designed, the power supply should be invisible, you want to picture it as one big battery. How it's charged and what brand it is won't be noticed until there is no enough power.
Some talk about SS rectifiers having "hash" noise etc. I can't hear anything at all. There are some diodes that are supposed to be better for this if wanted.
Embrace it, it's one of the few things in tube audio were a valve can replaced with a modern. maintenance free component and have a positive result in audio application.
My Hallicrafters 2kw ham amplifier uses mercury vapor tubes -- hash isn't a problem with them.
If you break a mercury vapor tube, don't attempt to vacuum up the liquid metal - you need a special HEPA filter vacuum and a regular device will just cause the mercury particulate to go into a fine suspension in the air (pretty heavy, however.)
Compact fluorescents contain mercury, not enough to cause serious concern if treated properly and handled correctly, but enough to cause a scare at Home Depot when some were accidentally broken. (CFL's use switch mode power supply which generates its own "hash").
If you break a mercury vapor tube, don't attempt to vacuum up the liquid metal - you need a special HEPA filter vacuum and a regular device will just cause the mercury particulate to go into a fine suspension in the air (pretty heavy, however.)
Compact fluorescents contain mercury, not enough to cause serious concern if treated properly and handled correctly, but enough to cause a scare at Home Depot when some were accidentally broken. (CFL's use switch mode power supply which generates its own "hash").
Nah, you didn't, it's all in the implementation, and I would not expect a 2kW linear to be the most susceptible application either.
I've heard plenty of MV rectifiers in SE tube amps where the hash had to be carefully dealt with. (And sometimes hadn't)- Status
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