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6C33B-C push pull with output transformer
6C33B-C push pull with output transformer
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Old 14th September 2006, 04:19 PM   #11
pusttiu is offline pusttiu  Romania
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hy ,
i am from romania, and for me is too expensiv to bye an output transformer and i have to build one.
for this i need a schematic.... whith google i found one but i am not sigure if is working.
if you have a trafo pp for clas ab... i need dimension of wire (CuEm) and nr of spires , tole dimension and section of the core.
thk.
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Old 15th September 2006, 07:46 AM   #12
ErikdeBest is offline ErikdeBest  Switzerland
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6C33B-C push pull with output transformer
Quote:
Originally posted by Alain Dupont
vincent,

There is a tranfo made by Plitron/Amplimo: PAT4144-00.pdf

http://www.plitron.com/
http://www.plitron.com/pages/Products/Audio/special.htm

Made for a push of 6C33C-B

A great one!!

Regards.

Alain.
There was a pretty recent thread where someone asked for a PP design using this output transformer. I know people here were scratching their head thinking how to apply this trafo...it has a reflected impedance of jut 150R. One person sent mr. van der Veen an email asking what kind of schematic or application he had in mind when designing this tube...as reply he got the datasheet from the 6C33C Well, I would not buy it.

Sowter also have two trafo's, one with 600R and the other with 1200R. But I wouldn't dare to ask for their prices.

I have Morgan Jones valve amplifiers book, where he explains how to build a PP driver stage with a swing of 100V RMS. He uses it to drive two 13E1 tubes, but I think it would do a very good job driving the 6C33C. Just pay close attention to the adjustment for mains variation

Erik
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Old 15th September 2006, 09:30 AM   #13
Shoog is offline Shoog
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I hate to sound like a stuck record, but here goes.
Mains toroidals make excellent PP output transformers for low output impedence applications. This is because their relatively low primary inductance is still plenty enough with the low output impedence of tubes like the 6080 and 6C33-c. Also the low reflected impedence required by these tubes is relatively easy to source in standard mains transformers ranges.
The only real issue is that they don't like DC and finding balanced pairs of 6C33-c (which stay balanced) is nearly impossible. So turn this to your advantage and place CCS in the cathodes of each 6C33-c and force them to stay balanced for ever and a day. There are also many huge sonic benefits to putting CCS in the tails of any tube.

The great advantage overall is that you can use transormers costing €30.00, rather than ones costing €120.00
I have done this in a 6080 amp and it is the best sounding amp I have built so far (and it goes down to 10hz).

Shoog
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Old 15th September 2006, 02:04 PM   #14
JoshK is offline JoshK  Canada
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Shoog,

Thanks for the ideas. I am going to try a conventional OPT, but might also try a mains tx too. The CCS in the tail is a good idea.

FWIW, I did some digging when I was looking for a suitable OPT, to see what there was available. I didn't look into Sowter, Tribute or other European sources, but for US and cheap Asian sources there is James for SE operation only and Lundahl (guess both EU & US) makes the 1627 that will work for either SE or PP.

I went with O'Netics, because Bob Purvine is a great guy and has really given me a lot of time and energy since I first expressed interest in the Karna project. I still do plan to build something like that project, but I need to cut my teeth on something simpler first. At least it was meant to be simple and inexpensive, but when all is said and done, neither are turning out to be so. But, I'll have learned a lot I hope.

For front ends, I am considering something like the glass palace front end (probably with 6N6Ps instead), an Aikido split load phase splitter with differential aikido style cathode followers (you have to put two and two together from his articles), or use CCS loaded C3g in triode strap in an Amity style config (with requisite iron). Too many choices...but I may just have to build this module enough to try all three front ends and see what I like.
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Old 15th September 2006, 04:05 PM   #15
ErikdeBest is offline ErikdeBest  Switzerland
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6C33B-C push pull with output transformer
Shoog

It was not my intention to say that toroidals are bad as OPT, I have used them myself, in an amp that is now with a cousin. I just wanted to say that that 6c33c model of plitron has weird specifications, and if I were to buy an opt it wouldn't be that one.

Erik
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Old 15th September 2006, 05:34 PM   #16
rdf is offline rdf  Canada
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shoog
I hate to sound like a stuck record...
Shoog

Not stuck, scrachin'. To some ears it's music. Didn't you have a thread on this somewhere? Sounds very interesting.
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Old 15th September 2006, 05:40 PM   #17
ErikdeBest is offline ErikdeBest  Switzerland
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6C33B-C push pull with output transformer
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...345&highlight=

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...=&pagenumber=4

and than there are these two references on the net, and somewhere I saw a schematic with a toroidal as interstage, sure someone will come up with that one.

http://triodeguy.com/6as7_pp.htm

http://members.aol.com/sbench/50c5.html

Erik
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Old 15th September 2006, 05:55 PM   #18
rdf is offline rdf  Canada
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Thanks!
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Old 5th June 2009, 10:19 AM   #19
GlidingDutchman is offline GlidingDutchman  South Africa
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shoog
I hate to sound like a stuck record, but here goes.
Mains toroidals make excellent PP output transformers for low output impedence applications. This is because their relatively low primary inductance is still plenty enough with the low output impedence of tubes like the 6080 and 6C33-c. Also the low reflected impedence required by these tubes is relatively easy to source in standard mains transformers ranges.
The only real issue is that they don't like DC and finding balanced pairs of 6C33-c (which stay balanced) is nearly impossible. So turn this to your advantage and place CCS in the cathodes of each 6C33-c and force them to stay balanced for ever and a day. There are also many huge sonic benefits to putting CCS in the tails of any tube.

The great advantage overall is that you can use transormers costing €30.00, rather than ones costing €120.00
I have done this in a 6080 amp and it is the best sounding amp I have built so far (and it goes down to 10hz).

Shoog
Shoog

Can you explain the CCS for the 6C33C in a bit more detail? Would I be able to use it in my 6C33C single ended amplifier?
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Old 5th June 2009, 11:58 AM   #20
Shoog is offline Shoog
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I can't really see to much of an advantage in putting CCS in the cathodes of a SE amp. You have to ask - what is the problem you are trying to solve. In my case its current imbalance in toroidals and thats it. Its the toroidals which bring the sonic benefits and the fact that I can configure my 6080's as differential pairs. There are no such advantages to be gained with a SE amp

I tried it in a version of RH807 and it worked fine, but was there a sonic benefit - NO as far as I can remember.

Shoog
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