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Old 11th December 2002, 06:34 PM   #61
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Default Fred, if it's so boring to you, don't read it

You have proved my point......... Post on, I have made my point and you and whoever can go on with your viewpoint as long as you want. Ignorance is your right and far be it for me to deny you views that you are comfortable with.
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Old 11th December 2002, 06:40 PM   #62
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I don't mean to take part in the fighting and I have not
personally done any listening tests of passive components yet.
However, since a lot of people claim to hear differences and
there are some attempts at explaining why, I keep an open
mind. So, let me just throw in a potential suggestion why
the issue was not known/discussed until the 70's. Could it
be that passive components generally were of fairly high
quality until then, and that the chase for low production costs
forced the manufacturers to redesign all mainstream passive
components, having unfortunate consequences for their use
in audio equipment? I don't know how reasonable this
explanation is, but there were fewer types of capacitors, often
of types now considered to big and expensive for most use (mica)
or being discontinued (eg. polystyrene). Components are also
getting smaller and smaller, perhaps leading to scrifices in
internal design. An analogy could be the car industry, where
cars manufactured up to the early 70s tended not to rust
very much, while cars produced later have a much higher
tendency to rust (although various chemical treatments may
improve matters). The main reason for this is that the car
industry started to use recycled steel in the 70s.
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Old 11th December 2002, 06:41 PM   #63
Joel is offline Joel  United States
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Default Re: Fred, if it's so boring to you, don't read it

Quote:
Originally posted by Fred Dieckmann
You have proved my point.........
You had a point? I must have missed it. One minute you're telling somebody they're clueless for not choosing metal film resistors, then the next post you're calling me clueless for not believing in the mythological properties of capacitors. I don't think I'm the one who's clueless.
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Old 11th December 2002, 06:58 PM   #64
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I second Fred. You're either clueless or stubborn.
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Old 11th December 2002, 07:08 PM   #65
Joel is offline Joel  United States
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Thanks for the constructive input Peter. How many cases are on your cd player now?

Well, I guess no one else thinks it's odd that this is a new phenomena. Ok, fine.

I'm just thankfull that the success or failure of my amps doesn't depend on which resistor or cap I happen to have in the bin that day. That must be a scary feeling!
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Old 11th December 2002, 07:13 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally posted by Joel
That must be a scary feeling!
And that's exactly what I think about your approach. You're just too scared to face the truth. But if this makes you happy, I'm happy with you.
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Old 11th December 2002, 07:34 PM   #67
Joel is offline Joel  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by Peter Daniel
You're just too scared to face the truth.
Why don't you turn that investigative journalism back on yourself? I think you're scared to put the work into understanding electronics, so it's easier to believe that the parts you choose is more important anyway. That doesn't require any hard work, or thought, just some money. Must be nice!

Do you ever read High Fidelity? I have almost every issue from the the early 60's up to '71 or so. In each issue they carry out quite extensive reviews of amps & speakers, etc, in which they included scope displays, THD measurements, ratings, and listening test results. Very thorough. In over 100 issues, covering thousands of amps, tape decks, preamps, etc, they do not once mention the choice of a capacitor or resistor type, or brand. They do not discuss wire. They do not discuss "interconnects". They do not talk about "power conditioning". They don't think to cover the topic of tube brands. So, maybe that doesn't say anything to you, but it speaks volumes to me.
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Old 11th December 2002, 07:45 PM   #68
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I've never read much of High Fidelity. Maybe I should try. OTOH I do a lot of critical listening tests.
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Old 11th December 2002, 08:03 PM   #69
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Gentlemen,

It has been my observation:

1. That before the time period of the early 70s the number of choices for parts was much more limited. Manufacturers needed to use the most cost effective parts (performance/dollar).

2. After that time a number of new types of components became avilable. Several poeple started to rebuild the older equipment and play around with the new parts looking for that last 1% improvement in the sound. Some times they got it with special parts.

3. Joel, being from NY, NY seems to see the world in Black or White. I have never seen a post from him that even admits to any shade of gray.

I intend no insult here, it's just my observation.

Later
Bruce
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Old 11th December 2002, 08:34 PM   #70
Joel is offline Joel  United States
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Bruce,

I think that's an unfair categorization. You haven't been in enough discussions with me to say I only see the world in black and white. (another insult)

And, why is it that I have been called "clueless" by people, and yet you don't tell them they are being inflexible?

I guess intelligence on diyaudio is measured by how closely your opinions follow the majority.
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