• WARNING: Tube/Valve amplifiers use potentially LETHAL HIGH VOLTAGES.
    Building, troubleshooting and testing of these amplifiers should only be
    performed by someone who is thoroughly familiar with
    the safety precautions around high voltages.

High-end Class A valve amplifiers will be illegal in USA?

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poobah said:
Wouldn't it be an interesting twist if we were to force manufacturers to be responsible for the return shipping and disposal of a product? ...

:(

I wholeheartedly agree with this!

We don't really pay the full cost of products we buy. The cost of disassembly, recycling and safe disposal should be included in the price of new products. That way we wouldn't have to ban substances, just include the price of making sure it doesn't find its way back into the environment in a harmful way. Those who just have to have things made with such substances could have them if they could afford them while most people would be OK with alternatives.

I think we might then consume less and have a better appreciation for what happens after we toss something in the trash can.

JAT
 
Sherman... yep. Ulterior motives or otherwise... I like how an HP toner cartridge comes with a prepaid return policy. Actually, a mandate like that would be one more strike against the little guy...just food for thought.

Brian, don't shoot yourself... go for the bass-boomer-monster-truck guys instead; that should free up some energy.
 
You guys are all rasing good points about how this law seems unjust, however it seems that no one has raised the issue of the personal freedom (and if you have i'm sorry), I don't mean to be hating on the EU, but I don't feel that the government has the right to limit my electrical consumption.

Sherman I totally hear you about midwestern summers.

and as for the second law of thermodynamics I inevented a 100% efficent machine years ago, its my heater/noisemaker/vibrating footstool!
 
I can hate on the EU as well as anybody. But I think the EU takes the issue of individual freedom very seriously. It's simply not a one-way street.

I have bigger issues with the EU (or if it's only France) going after iTunes when region coded DVDs restrict freedoms a lot more, and it's anti competition. But then, the EU has no more interest seeing free competition within the EU than the US has seeing it within its borders. Both exercise protectionism first. Free competition is for the rest of the world. Money talks.
 
Actually, I think that the number of audiophiles who use class A power amps are so few compared to the total numer of amp owners in the world that it makes very little difference from an environmental perspective. There is much much more electricity consumed by all high-performance PCs with extreme graphics cards that kids (and others) use to play the latest computer games. More effort and knowledge in the programming of computer games and many other programs could reduce the hardware requirements and save a lot of energy. Of course, also the hardware is getting better from a power-saving point of view, while at the samt time getting more powerful. AMDs Cool & Quiet technology is one such step in the right direction (for those of us who get it working).

Then think about all the people who drive cars consuming much more fuel than necessary for their need etc. etc.

I am not defending waste and carelesness with nature, but let's start with the big things, and start where it matters the least. Class A amps are so rare nowadays that this is a probably a non-issue, and prices of electricity will continue to increase so it will be self regulating in the end. If you want to listen to your 300 W class A amp, you might have to cut down on your electricity usage somewhere else to afford it, or skip that car ride you had planned or...
 
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I have often wondered about a combined Class A amplifier/refrigerator. A refrigerator is simply a heat pump, and although they're usually driven by a compressor to provide the cooling, there were once (more complex) fridges driven by burning gas. Really. It's true. I actually saw one. Anyway, it seems to me that if you have a localised heat source (the output valves) immersed upside down in an oil bath, then perhaps you could use that waste heat to drive the refrigerator. This would have the huge benefit that instead of the refrigerator used for cooling the beer having to consume additional power, it would be done for free. Even better, that particular refrigerator is only required when music is playing...

Alternatively, how about pumping water round the valves and using their waste heat as the pre-heat for domestic hot water?
 
Also don't forget, some of us live in a climate where we anyway need to heat our houses for at least half of the year. As long as one has thermostats to control the room heating it doesn't matter much to waste power in winter time. Light bubs are very ineffeicient, but it hardly matters in the winter since they help with the heating.

Now for those of you who instead need to use the AC for half the year...

I guess the ideal in my case would be a class A amp for the winter and a class D amp for the summer. :)
 
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Christer said:
Also don't forget, some of us live in a climate where we anyway need to heat our houses for at least half of the year. As long as one has thermostats to control the room heating it doesn't matter much to waste power in winter time. Light bulbs are very inefficient, but it hardly matters in the winter since they help with the heating.

What is your main source of power in Sweden? In the UK, deliberately using electricity for heating is extremely expensive. Instead of using Joules, we have a misceganation of a unit known as the kiloWatt/hour, and the price per kW/h for electricity is far higher than for gas.

Oh, and gianis, I'm quite tempted to use a silicon Class D thing for a subwoofer. But not for anything above 100Hz.
 
EC8010 said:


What is your main source of power in Sweden? In the UK, deliberately using electricity for heating is extremely expensive. Instead of using Joules, we have a misceganation of a unit known as the kiloWatt/hour, and the price per kW/h for electricity is far higher than for gas.

It differs. In the cities we usually have a central plant heating water that is circulated all over to heat houses. I think most of them still use oil for heatin, although some use (not sure about the word) "waste" from the sawmills. Where I live they actually burn garbage to produce heat water, but that is an exception.
People who live in their own house usually either burn oil or has electric heating, but if it is close enough to the city, they may be connected to central water-heating plant. So, I am afraid we mostly burn oil for heating, which might seem stupid since we have plenty of big hydroelectric power plants. However, they are not sufficient and according to a referendum back 1979, or so, it was decided to get rid of all nuclear power plants within 25 years. Hence, all those should already be gone by now, but in reality only one has been closed down. Anyway, the authorities usually try to encourage people to connect to the central water heating, by economical or other means. In my case this means that a class A amp wouldn't be economical in winter either, since I pay separately for the electricity, but the heating is included in the rent for my flat. The goes for light bulbs. They cost me to use, but don't really make that much difference to the environment. Of course, it differs from place to place what is and isn't included in the rent for a flat. Some don't pay separately for electricity either.
 
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poobah said:
It seems we should have a P-channel tubes. A supercooled anode emitting holes.

Excuse me, but I have a Patent on that. It is an integral part of my multi-cluster reverse ionization buried Zener voltage reference. I will, however, grant you a licence on this device in exchange for a (negotiable) number of positron power tubes.

Christer: That's interesting. Thanks for that. Is your central water heating geothermal?
 
poobah said:
It seems we should have a P-channel tubes. A supercooled anode emitting holes. Then we would just need a small heat pump to run these things.

:cool:

Great idea. It is always easier to invent something when you know what to invent, so I guess it is just some hard work remaining. OK, guys, back to the drawing board all of you. First one back with working prototype is welcome to have a glass of malt whisky at my place. :)
 
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